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Old 11-03-2018, 07:38 PM
 
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"I have entertained the thought that all Christians...will be corrected post-mortem. For clearly Christiansí characters will not have been perfected at the time of their death. So wonít they need to be perfected post-mortem? That can happen in either of two ways. 1) God will miraculously perfect them instantaneously or 2) God will correct them gradually."

"In this life, God corrects us gradually. Although he could make a person totally righteous instantaneously, thatís not the way He operates. So we would expect that He wonít do so in the afterlife either."
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
"I have entertained the thought that all Christians...will be corrected post-mortem. For clearly Christians’ characters will not have been perfected at the time of their death. So won’t they need to be perfected post-mortem? That can happen in either of two ways. 1) God will miraculously perfect them instantaneously or 2) God will correct them gradually."

"In this life, God corrects us gradually. Although he could make a person totally righteous instantaneously, that’s not the way He operates. So we would expect that He won’t do so in the afterlife either."

Does this ring a bell?

...Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.…

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Old 11-03-2018, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Revelation 22:11.
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
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You 2 are good!
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Old 11-04-2018, 12:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
Does this ring a bell?

...Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.…

Inclusive of ALL humanity.

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" He who hears, let him say, "Come!"
He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires, let him take the water of life freely.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:23 AM
 
435 posts, read 117,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
Does this ring a bell?

...Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.…

In the context of those verses, namely 1 Corinthians 15:52-53, they refer to - the body - of "the dead" saints (Christians) becoming "immortal":

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


The Christian's spirit & soul is not of "the dead" (v.53). So vs. 52-53 don't address the issue of whether or not any (or all) Christians' - SOULS - will need further character improvement postmortem.

Compare:

“Everyone will be salted with fire.” (Mk.9:49)

1 Cor.3:12 Now if anyone builds upon the foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,13 the work of each will become manifest, for the day will disclose it, because it is revealed in fire, and the fire itself will prove the work of each, what sort it is. 14 If the work of anyone that he built up will remain, he will receive a reward. 15 If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

2 Cor.5:10 For we must all be revealed before the judgment seat of Christ, that each may receive back the things done through the body according to what he did, whether good or evil. 11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:48 AM
 
435 posts, read 117,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
Revelation 22:11.
Is there any reason to apply Rev.22:11 to postmortem existence:

"Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

Paul uses similar language re premortem existence:

1 Cor.14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

As do other passages, e.g.:

Ezekiel 3:27
But when I speak with you, I will open your mouth, and you are to tell them, 'This is what the Lord GOD says.' Whoever listens, let him listen; and whoever refuses, let him refuse; for they are a rebellious house.

Christians are considered "righteous" & "holy" (Rev.22:11), but does that mean they are sinless, never sin, or grow in Christ, or are being continually transformed? Are their character's all perfect in this life & in need of no further transformation postmortem? Will the baby in Christ who dies as such remain that way forever or be transformed postmortem into a more mature saint like the apostle Paul? Would that happen instantly or over a period of time as in this world?
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:35 AM
 
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Believers will be required to have some fruits of the spirit before the afterlife , or they could be rejected as to ill for heaven , as God can only do so much for people who have ignored the anointing of Christ for their lives and never pruned the sin off .........Faith is another obstacle that some many loose heaven , as unforgiveness and some sin can block faith , which God requires
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,503 posts, read 15,462,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
"I have entertained the thought that all Christians...will be corrected post-mortem. For clearly Christiansí characters will not have been perfected at the time of their death. So wonít they need to be perfected post-mortem? That can happen in either of two ways. 1) God will miraculously perfect them instantaneously or 2) God will correct them gradually."

"In this life, God corrects us gradually. Although he could make a person totally righteous instantaneously, thatís not the way He operates. So we would expect that He wonít do so in the afterlife either."
It's called the judgment seat of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
2 Corinthians 5:10
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:16 PM
 
40,090 posts, read 26,755,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Inclusive of ALL humanity.

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" He who hears, let him say, "Come!"
He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires, let him take the water of life freely.
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