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Old 11-04-2018, 02:22 PM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,183,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Too bad there is no devil in Judaism...
Did you want one?
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:30 PM
 
20,433 posts, read 9,849,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Jesus had to become a man, a human being, in order to die a substitutionary death for mankind.
There is no substitutional death for everyone reaps, what they have sown.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:54 PM
 
Location: New England
32,269 posts, read 21,136,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
There is no substitutional death for everyone reaps, what they have sown.
Someone making the ultimate sacrifice, we reap what they have sown.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:56 PM
 
1,280 posts, read 436,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Saved by grace is lazy, weak-minded theology that appeals to the indolent. It's analogous to the Grasshopper and the Ant story.

Salvation by grace is correct theology.


HOWEVER, people who have been saved by grace show that salvation by gladly performing good works, so salvation by grace is, if you look at the whole picture, a near-requirement to do a lot of work.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:20 PM
 
40,117 posts, read 26,779,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Jesus had to become a man, a human being, in order to die a substitutionary death for mankind.
Jesus had to become a man, a human being, in order to achieve what mankind could NOT! He is our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam for us all. His death enabled His Holy Spirit to connect us all to God and abide with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts."
Quote:
And yes, salvation is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. It is not on the basis of works.
And yes, salvation is by the Grace (perfect agape love) of Christ Jesus. It is not on the basis of anything we do, but we will reap whatever we sow if we do not repent (change our state of mind) in agape love.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:58 PM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 15 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,884 posts, read 13,451,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesandKittens View Post
Salvation by grace is correct theology.


HOWEVER, people who have been saved by grace show that salvation by gladly performing good works, so salvation by grace is, if you look at the whole picture, a near-requirement to do a lot of work.
I understand your take on it but stand by mine.
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:43 PM
 
21,924 posts, read 16,727,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Jesus had to become a man, a human being, in order to achieve what mankind could NOT! He is our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam for us all. His death enabled His Holy Spirit to connect us all to God and abide with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." And yes, salvation is by the Grace (perfect agape love) of Christ Jesus. It is not on the basis of anything we do, but we will reap whatever we sow if we do not repent (change our state of mind) in agape love.
Jesus had to become a man in order to be able to provide salvation for man. To be our substitute, to make propitiation for our sins, He had to become a human being.
Hebrews 2:17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Since mankind sinned and is under the penalty of spiritual death, it was a man, a man free of sin that had to die as our substitute in order to provide salvation for man.
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:58 PM
 
1,280 posts, read 436,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Nuttin'. Nada. Zip. Rien.

The whole Christian business model is built on convincing people they're worthless curs deserving only of an eternity of toasting - UNLESS they toe the Christian line and say all the magic words to Jesus.

ETA: I want to thank scgraham for introducing me to "Team Jesus." Just saying it cracks me up.

I've been Christian my entire life-and I'm not young- and never have I heard any denigration of people as "worthless", and Hell is rarely mentioned (at least in my Presbyterian Church (USA) congregations).


Rather, the message is:


1. We're made in God's image.
2. God loves us more than we can ever imagine.
3. We are all eligible for redemption, and Jesus died to redeem ALL of us.


Further, every Sunday (it gets tiresome), the pastors say, "We don't all look alike, and we certainly don't all think alike, but by God's grace, we come together to follow Him."


Dissent is encouraged!


Try the Presbyterian Church (USA)--it's pretty much the opposite of your post.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:08 PM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 15 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,884 posts, read 13,451,742 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesandKittens View Post
I've been Christian my entire life-and I'm not young- and never have I heard any denigration of people as "worthless", and Hell is rarely mentioned (at least in my Presbyterian Church (USA) congregations).


Rather, the message is:


1. We're made in God's image.
2. God loves us more than we can ever imagine.
3. We are all eligible for redemption, and Jesus died to redeem ALL of us.


Further, every Sunday (it gets tiresome), the pastors say, "We don't all look alike, and we certainly don't all think alike, but by God's grace, we come together to follow Him."


Dissent is encouraged!


Try the Presbyterian Church (USA)--it's pretty much the opposite of your post.
Longtime CD members know I have no problem with the vast majority of Christians. My targets are the narrow-minded bigots which comprise the bulk of the American-centric, Christian Fundamentalist movement of the late 19th century. Calvinism lies at its dark heart.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:13 PM
 
40,117 posts, read 26,779,715 times
Reputation: 6051
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Jesus had to become a man, a human being, in order to achieve what mankind could NOT! He is our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam for us all. His death enabled His Holy Spirit to connect us all to God and abide with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." And yes, salvation is by the Grace (perfect agape love) of Christ Jesus. It is not on the basis of anything we do, but we will reap whatever we sow if we do not repent (change our state of mind) in agape love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Jesus had to become a man in order to be able to provide salvation for man. To be our substitute, to make propitiation for our sins, He had to become a human being.
He had to be a human so He could DO what we humans could NOT do - achieve perfect agape love in a human consciousness to connect ALL human consciousness to God's consciousness. All human consciousness remained separate from God until His human consciousness achieved "perfect resonance" (Identity) with God's consciousness. That is how He is the Way to God. We need to emulate His love however imperfectly to achieve the cover of His perfect love (Grace).
Quote:
Hebrews 2:17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Since mankind sinned and is under the penalty of spiritual death, it was a man, a man free of sin that had to die as our substitute in order to provide salvation for man.
There is no punishment needed. It is HIS mercy and compassion (Agape) toward the "sins" of our ancestors - their ignorance and brutality - that revealed the True Nature of God the Father. His death and rebirth as Spirit make His Holy Spirit available to us within our consciousness during sincere and devout prayer or meditation. Be silent and know He is there, Mike.
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