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Old 11-12-2018, 03:53 PM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,528,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring View Post
Sin is a definition man came up with to give some credibility to a supposed gap between man and God, that is a result of eating of the tree we weren't supposed to eat of. Judgement is a symptom of having eaten of the fruit of the tree we weren't supposed to eat of. That leaves righteousness, which is the only authentic measure out of the 3 you say Jesus referred.
In Scripture, I find sin is either on purpose or not, willful or not, premeditated or not, by accident or not.......
The judgement 'time of separation' on Earth described at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 is ahead of us.
I see the figurative humble 'sheep'-like people are counted as righteous in verse 37.
Counted as righteous by the way they have treated Jesus' spiritual ' brothers on earth as per verse 40.
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Do the Jewish people need an intercessor to pray directly to God or exp God directly?
I think not.
Does a 4 yr old need an intercessor to connect directly to God....raised in a non-religious family?..........
First of all, I find parents are responsible for minor children as per 1st Corinthians 7:14.
So, to me that means knowing parents should tell children that since Jesus is 'mediator' as 1st Timothy 2:5 says 'between God and men' then prayers are to be directed to God but given in Jesus' name, Amen.
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:23 PM
 
5,931 posts, read 1,697,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Obviously, this is for Christians...not atheists saying there was no Jesus, nor a God...so, please.

In other words, why do you think, you could not just 'go to the Father' or have the Father or,
aka, Holy Spirit visit you?
Say, if you were a Hindu....say, if you were unsure what Jesus' role was, but wanted to communicate with God....your Creator?

I suppose there will be a ton of verses quoted...but that isn't what
I'm asking for...we know all the verses.

Why do YOU think God would be inaccessible to someone without Jesus involved?
First one to quote what someone else said in The Bible loses...that's a joke, to make a point.
Because, historically, that's how God has treated man. He requires a priest as an intercessor.
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Because, historically, that's how God has treated man. He requires a priest as an intercessor.
Historically, it was man who wrote the Scriptures. And, it is man who desires that of a King and/or Priest.
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:17 PM
 
798 posts, read 592,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Obviously, this is for Christians...not atheists saying there was no Jesus, nor a God...so, please.

In other words, why do you think, you could not just 'go to the Father' or have the Father or,
aka, Holy Spirit visit you?
Say, if you were a Hindu....say, if you were unsure what Jesus' role was, but wanted to communicate with God....your Creator?

I suppose there will be a ton of verses quoted...but that isn't what
I'm asking for...we know all the verses.

Why do YOU think God would be inaccessible to someone without Jesus involved?
First one to quote what someone else said in The Bible loses...that's a joke, to make a point.
Because Jesus is a part of the holy trinity of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and as a Christian you believe that Jesus has said that none may enter the Kingdom of Heaven except through him.
If you don't believe that then you are not a Christian. You can of course be a Hindu and talk to God directly.
Sorry, I realize that I indirectly quoted NT verses to you, but believing in the NT is a big part of Christianity, you cannot just wish it away.
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
Because Jesus is a part of the holy trinity of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and as a Christian you believe that Jesus has said that none may enter the Kingdom of Heaven except through him.
If you don't believe that then you are not a Christian. You can of course be a Hindu and talk to God directly.
Sorry, I realize that I indirectly quoted NT verses to you, but believing in the NT is a big part of Christianity, you cannot just wish it away.
I, personally, don't label myself. But according to your definition, I must be Hindu?
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Old 11-12-2018, 08:03 PM
Status: "Wild breathtaking recovery" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: the Kingdom of His dear Son
3,255 posts, read 886,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Jesus did instruct us to pray directly to God, our "Father in Heaven," and I believe that's what we should be doing. Even though I always end my own prayers, "in the name of Jesus Christ" because I believe He is our intercessor with the Father, I've always believed that God hears and answers prayers offered from the heart by anyone who believes He's listening and cares.
Dear Katz: There is much that evades me after a walk with Father for over 60 years. There are always fresh horizons breaking with each new day in Him. I do know this: "the Father Himself loves you." Jesus Christ is NOT pleading with a Father who is against us, and there is no sense of Jesus trying to persuade God to do something that he requests, but that God is reluctant to grant. He is bringing many sons home because that is what Abba desires, plans and brings to complete fulfillment. He is the parakletos in total union with the Father's desires for each & every one with emphasis placed upon the especially, as the firstborn of many brethren, or those He makes exactly like Him as the Firstborn of many brethren.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I, personally, don't label myself. But according to your definition, I must be Hindu?
Me too.

I mean, I love my earthly (of the flesh) brother, but I don't 'follow' him - I'm not doing my life his way - I'm doing what I am ordained to do.

Religion,.including christianity is just like the hierarchical institutions man always comes up with; "you have to do what this person says, or you're not one of us".

I suppose I've decided that I have to take responsibility (for what it's worth, which isn't much!) for knowing the Father myself, and I think Jesus is ok with that, since that is what he meant by "I and the Father are One."
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:22 AM
 
798 posts, read 592,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I, personally, don't label myself. But according to your definition, I must be Hindu?
Non-Christian. Hindu was just an example.

In any case, I think the OP's question was not so much "why can't I access God except through Jesus" but rather "why did Jesus say we have to go through Him"? MissHepburn correct me if I am wrong.

I think the answer to that is the milieu Jesus was in. Judaism is a Messianic religion and roughly 150 years before his time they had the Maccabean revolts. So Jews were desperate to find a Messiah and many false prophets claimed to be one. I think Jesus wanted to give one true path to his followers without any doubts or confusion. So he prescribed one straight and narrow way.

Rambling on...
Maybe every institution, including religion, needs a makeover when the layers of complexity added over the years completely obscure the original message. Happened to Hinduism which was overrun with priests and animal sacrifices before Buddha came along. Happened to Judaism when the the Law was transformed into too many dry tedious rules for washing yourself and sacrifices and Sabbath rules and so on. It was less about God than about Pharisees.

It is very very interesting that Paul referred to Rome as Babylon, and yet where is the head of the Catholic Church located? In Rome! In a sense Romans changed religions but continued ruling the Jews and others. And that devolved into buying absolutions and the whole superstition-laden medieval theology. Until Protestants came along and blew away the cobwebs. cf Jesus saying He had come to destroy, not to build.

Bottom line, simplicity and faith beats complexity and ritual and maybe Jesus saying you have to go through him is an example of that. I don't think it's a coincidence that Islam and Christianity are the easiest to understand among major world religions, and have the most followers, and are growing. Who wants to sift through endless midrash to find the true meaning of faith?
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:03 PM
 
20,349 posts, read 9,815,907 times
Reputation: 1672
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
Non-Christian. Hindu was just an example.

In any case, I think the OP's question was not so much "why can't I access God except through Jesus" but rather "why did Jesus say we have to go through Him"? MissHepburn correct me if I am wrong.

I think the answer to that is the milieu Jesus was in. Judaism is a Messianic religion and roughly 150 years before his time they had the Maccabean revolts. So Jews were desperate to find a Messiah and many false prophets claimed to be one. I think Jesus wanted to give one true path to his followers without any doubts or confusion. So he prescribed one straight and narrow way.

Rambling on...
Maybe every institution, including religion, needs a makeover when the layers of complexity added over the years completely obscure the original message. Happened to Hinduism which was overrun with priests and animal sacrifices before Buddha came along. Happened to Judaism when the the Law was transformed into too many dry tedious rules for washing yourself and sacrifices and Sabbath rules and so on. It was less about God than about Pharisees.

It is very very interesting that Paul referred to Rome as Babylon, and yet where is the head of the Catholic Church located? In Rome! In a sense Romans changed religions but continued ruling the Jews and others. And that devolved into buying absolutions and the whole superstition-laden medieval theology. Until Protestants came along and blew away the cobwebs. cf Jesus saying He had come to destroy, not to build.

Bottom line, simplicity and faith beats complexity and ritual and maybe Jesus saying you have to go through him is an example of that. I don't think it's a coincidence that Islam and Christianity are the easiest to understand among major world religions, and have the most followers, and are growing. Who wants to sift through endless midrash to find the true meaning of faith?
Who wants to follow a syncrestic belief-system that encompasses things like that of a false underworld, damnation and a plurality of Gods?
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