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Old 12-02-2018, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,890 posts, read 4,991,637 times
Reputation: 1520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
That one.

Cruelty is a matter of intent, not accident and the idea that one could accidently be cruel to a slaughtered calf is as ridiculous on examination as the very separation of meat from dairy in order to accidentally violate a rule. Maimonides made a clear analysis that the original mitzvah was about the magical practices around them and the zealous pursuit of circumstances that might violate the specific action rather than participating in the magic turns the tradition into its own kind of magic.

Can you honestly say that you think this was God's intention?
You don't know much about animals do you? Tribal people respected animals although they ate them, they gave thanks like an Indian blessing a deer he killed by praying for it.

Since they were sacrificed, all the sins of the world fell on the head of an animal, and what must they have thought of the animal that took their sin away?

Since they were sacrificed, would it have been ok to torture the animal before killing it?

People have to eat, but just because they kill an animal doesn't mean that it would be ok to torture and disrespect the animal.

Of course you don't eat meat do you?

Have you ever killed a deer, a hog, a cow?

Thre is a big difference between buying a hamburger and actually raising and killing an animal, hunters who kill and clean their own animals generally care for animals way more than the hamburger eating person who never killed anything...

According to your logic, it would be ok to torture or do anything you wish to an animal you are about to kill.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:09 AM
 
Location: US
27,998 posts, read 15,082,761 times
Reputation: 1754
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
That one.

Cruelty is a matter of intent, not accident and the idea that one could accidently be cruel to a slaughtered calf is as ridiculous on examination as the very separation of meat from dairy in order to accidentally violate a rule. Maimonides made a clear analysis that the original mitzvah was about the magical practices around them and the zealous pursuit of circumstances that might violate the specific action rather than participating in the magic turns the tradition into its own kind of magic.

Can you honestly say that you think this was God's intention?
Mind citing Maimonides?...
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:23 AM
 
Location: central Florida
987 posts, read 357,957 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
But scripture sure did.......He wanted us to figure out it was impossible to keep and we needed HIM a merciful and gracious God to forgive us and give us eternal life after the cross........

23 for fall have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

We are as likely to keep the law as we are to jump to the moon..........

The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)
I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17

WHY can not the law save? Because the Law says so.

The Law tells us what sin is and thus convinces us of it.

The Law says that each person must come individually and humbly to the throne of grace to be saved.

The Law says that each person must bring their own sacrifice for sin before God. Grace has provided that sacrifice in the person of Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to the Law, those who wish to be saved must embrace Christ as their sacrifice.

The Law makes no provision for forgiveness and salvation for those who refuse to come humbly before the altar of grace. Therefore, not everyone will be saved......because they have not asked - according to the Law.

The Law is like a Do It Yourself book. It gives instruction, but does not do it.

For instance, a book on plumbing will not fix a leak. It will tell you how to identify the leak, what tools are necessary to fix the leak, how to fix the leak and how to prevent future leaks. You can wave a book on plumbing at a leaking pipe all day long and it won't fix anything. The Law is exactly like a book of instructions. It tells us what to do and what to expect from God. Those who believe they can wave the Law at sin all day and expect it to go away are mistaken.

The Law will lead a pilgrim to Christ and forgiveness and blessed life with God, but it is not God.

Does the reader want peace with God? Know the Law and follow it. Being a living sacrifice is what God desires, not empty scripture quotations all day long. Such activity bores God even more than it bores man.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:56 PM
 
Location: US
27,998 posts, read 15,082,761 times
Reputation: 1754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17

WHY can not the law save? Because the Law says so.

The Law tells us what sin is and thus convinces us of it.

The Law says that each person must come individually and humbly to the throne of grace to be saved.

The Law says that each person must bring their own sacrifice for sin before God. Grace has provided that sacrifice in the person of Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to the Law, those who wish to be saved must embrace Christ as their sacrifice.

The Law makes no provision for forgiveness and salvation for those who refuse to come humbly before the altar of grace. Therefore, not everyone will be saved......because they have not asked - according to the Law.

The Law is like a Do It Yourself book. It gives instruction, but does not do it.

For instance, a book on plumbing will not fix a leak. It will tell you how to identify the leak, what tools are necessary to fix the leak, how to fix the leak and how to prevent future leaks. You can wave a book on plumbing at a leaking pipe all day long and it won't fix anything. The Law is exactly like a book of instructions. It tells us what to do and what to expect from God. Those who believe they can wave the Law at sin all day and expect it to go away are mistaken.

The Law will lead a pilgrim to Christ and forgiveness and blessed life with God, but it is not God.

Does the reader want peace with God? Know the Law and follow it. Being a living sacrifice is what God desires, not empty scripture quotations all day long. Such activity bores God even more than it bores man.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
The Torah tells us what G-d expects of us, it is up to us to decide if we want to follow it...
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:00 PM
 
Location: US
27,998 posts, read 15,082,761 times
Reputation: 1754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17

WHY can not the law save? Because the Law says so.

The Law tells us what sin is and thus convinces us of it.

The Law says that each person must come individually and humbly to the throne of grace to be saved.

The Law says that each person must bring their own sacrifice for sin before God. Grace has provided that sacrifice in the person of Jesus Christ. Therefore, according to the Law, those who wish to be saved must embrace Christ as their sacrifice.

The Law makes no provision for forgiveness and salvation for those who refuse to come humbly before the altar of grace. Therefore, not everyone will be saved......because they have not asked - according to the Law.

The Law is like a Do It Yourself book. It gives instruction, but does not do it.

For instance, a book on plumbing will not fix a leak. It will tell you how to identify the leak, what tools are necessary to fix the leak, how to fix the leak and how to prevent future leaks. You can wave a book on plumbing at a leaking pipe all day long and it won't fix anything. The Law is exactly like a book of instructions. It tells us what to do and what to expect from God. Those who believe they can wave the Law at sin all day and expect it to go away are mistaken.

The Law will lead a pilgrim to Christ and forgiveness and blessed life with God, but it is not God.

Does the reader want peace with God? Know the Law and follow it. Being a living sacrifice is what God desires, not empty scripture quotations all day long. Such activity bores God even more than it bores man.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
The Torah does make provisions for salvation, if you want G-dís forgiveness, then stop sinning, i.e., cease doing which the Torah forbids and start doing what the Torah commands...Simple...
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,890 posts, read 4,991,637 times
Reputation: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
The Torah does make provisions for salvation, if you want G-dís forgiveness, then stop sinning, i.e., cease doing which the Torah forbids and start doing what the Torah commands...Simple...
Somehow the world preaches repentence but if there is no more law, what are they repenting for? On one hand people speak about their Holy spirit which comes to give them strength not to sin, but without a law, there is no sin and no reason for repentance.

Doesn't make sense does it?
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:38 PM
 
28 posts, read 6,141 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
But scripture sure did.......He wanted us to figure out it was impossible to keep and we needed HIM a merciful and gracious God to forgive us and give us eternal life after the cross........

23 for fall have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

We are as likely to keep the law as we are to jump to the moon..........

The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)
He did say this to you.



John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments,
ye shall abide in my love;
even as I have kept my Father's commandments,
and abide in his love.



If you do not keep His commandments
then Jesus will not love you.
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,890 posts, read 4,991,637 times
Reputation: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by _000_ View Post
He did say this to you.



John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments,
ye shall abide in my love;
even as I have kept my Father's commandments,
and abide in his love.



If you do not keep His commandments
then Jesus will not love you.
Welcome to the forum.

In speaking of the laws of Moses, Jesus said you can choose to not keep any of the laws AND EVEN teach others not to keep the law and still be in the kingdom heaven, he also said that you could speak against him and it will still be forgiven.......Keeping the commandments is for things to go well for you, it isn't a salvation issue.

Are you pro law or Messianic?

Atheist?
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:50 PM
 
28 posts, read 6,141 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Welcome to the forum.

In speaking of the laws of Moses, Jesus said you can choose to not keep any of the laws AND EVEN teach others not to keep the law and still be in the kingdom heaven, he also said that you could speak against him and it will still be forgiven.......Keeping the commandments is for things to go well for you, it isn't a salvation issue.

Are you pro law or Messianic?

Atheist?
The commandments of Jesus
is not the law of Moses.


It is not any laws.
It is the Word made flesh.


It is the love of God.
To abide in the love of God
you will keep them.
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Old 12-02-2018, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,890 posts, read 4,991,637 times
Reputation: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by _000_ View Post
The commandments of Jesus
is not the law of Moses.


It is not any laws.
It is the Word made flesh.


It is the love of God.
To abide in the love of God
you will keep them.
Maybe you should give us a list of those commandments.

''To abide in the love of God.''

Hey, that is what Hindus and Muslim but then I would agree that they are saved too.

Let's see, what were some of the commandments of Jesus? If somebody asks anything of you, you should give it to them, and if they are enemies, you give, and those who steal from you, you give them double.

Jesus spoke of the law saying that if you are angry with anyone, you are a murderer, and if you lust after a woman, then you are committed sexual immorality just by looking.

What else did Jesus say?

He said that anyone who doesn't keepp the laws of Moses to teach others not to keep them will be the least in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said that we had better keep the law better than the Pharisees and scribes, what do you think Jesus was saying?

Jesus spoke of the lawless and how they came up saying,'' But Jesus, Jesus, we taught your name in the streets and did miracles in your name.''

But Jesus looked at the lawless and said,'' Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.''

The commandments of Jesus?

You don't believe Jesus and yet you want to reject everything that is called of God or worshipped of God to expect us to believe you have a new set of Commandments but if we take the actual words of Jesus, your mentality falls on the ground.
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