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Old 12-06-2018, 02:07 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,237 posts, read 653,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Our claim is that we repent and we are forgiven our sins as the punishment for sin was taken away, the sin does not stop being sin, the law never stops judging sin. Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, and his whole life proves this. Jesus didn't come saying there was no law, he helped people and then said,'' Sin no more.'' There are so many pro law scriptures that most Christians don't like to admit, and it is just like Jesus speaking of the law where Christians just don't believe what he says, they assume Jesus is wrong in what he says of the law and that would make Jesus wrong in very many scripture, in half of what he said. I can quote Revelation showing the people who are being born again, and what it was that enabled tnem to be born again was keeping the commandments of God where it says,'' These are those who have the testimony of Jesus who keep the commandments of God.''

So many scriptures telling people that if they really love God, they should keep his commandments and this is proof of their love.
.........
Which is love God and your neighbour as yourself. That is the whole law and prophets, but we have the prophets also saying that the things written have been corrupted

Jer 8:5 Why has this people, Jerusalem, turned away to a never ending apostasy? They hold fast to deceit. They refuse to return.
Jer 8:6 I listened and heard. They did not speak so. No man repented because of this evil, saying, What have I done? Everyone turned in their own courses, as a horse rushes into the battle.
Jer 8:7 Also the stork in the heavens knows her seasons, and the turtledove and the swallow and the thrush observe the time of their coming. But My people do not know the judgment of Jehovah.
Jer 8:8 How do you say, We are wise, and the Law of Jehovah is with us? Behold, the lying pen of the scribes has certainly worked deceit.

Did Jesus come as a literal physical person, and was his life was exactly what is written in the gospels?

What you seem to be doing is cobbling together the signs in a haphazard way mixing the flesh and spirit, the literal and figurative.

What I believe is the same spirit that inspired the Hebrew Scriptures, inspired the new and it is not meant to be read literally

The Call of Jeremiah

Jer 1:4 Then the Word of Jehovah was to me, saying,
Jer 1:5 I knew you before I formed you in the belly; and before you came out of the womb, I consecrated you. I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Gal 1:15 But when God was pleased, He having separated me from my mother's belly, and having called me through His grace, Isa. 49:1
Gal 1:16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the nations, immediately I did not confer with flesh and blood,

Isa 49:1 Hear Me, coastlands, and you people from afar, and prick up your ear, Jehovah called Me from the womb; He mentioned My name from My mother's belly.
Isa 49:2 And He made My mouth like a sharp sword; He hid Me in the shadow of His hand, and made Me a polished arrow; He hid Me in His quiver;
Isa 49:3 and said to Me, You are My servant, Israel, You in whom I shall be glorified.
Isa 49:4 Then I said, I have labored in vain; I have spent My strength for nothing, and in vain; yet surely My judgment is with Jehovah, and My work with My God.
Isa 49:5 And now, says Jehovah who formed Me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob back to Him: Though Israel is not gathered, yet I am honored in the eye of Jehovah, and My God is My strength.
Isa 49:6 And He said, It is too little that You should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You for a light of the nations, that You may be My salvation to the end of the earth.

Time with time, sign with sign, like with like from the Old and new need to be put in the correct order, to understand

Jer 23:20 The anger of Jehovah shall not turn back until He has executed, and until He has set up the purposes of His heart. In latter days you shall understand it perfectly.
Jer 23:21 I have not sent the prophets, yet they ran; I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
Jer 23:22 But if they had stood in My counsel and had caused My people to hear My Words, then they would have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.


1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of a man within him? So also no one has known the things of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:13 Which things we also speak, not in words taught in human wisdom, but in Words taught of the Holy Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But the spiritual one discerns all things, but he is discerned by no one.
1Co 2:16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord?" "Who will teach Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. Isa. 40:13
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,265 posts, read 7,652,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I care about the Law...
strange....I believe in the principle that should be the foundation for any law, but all too often is lost in the words of imperfect laws... or possibly imperfectly understood laws.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,806 posts, read 4,968,434 times
Reputation: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2 View Post
Which is love God and your neighbour as yourself. That is the whole law and prophets, but we have the prophets also saying that the things written have been corrupted

Jer 8:5 Why has this people, Jerusalem, turned away to a never ending apostasy? They hold fast to deceit. They refuse to return.
Jer 8:6 I listened and heard. They did not speak so. No man repented because of this evil, saying, What have I done? Everyone turned in their own courses, as a horse rushes into the battle.
Jer 8:7 Also the stork in the heavens knows her seasons, and the turtledove and the swallow and the thrush observe the time of their coming. But My people do not know the judgment of Jehovah.
Jer 8:8 How do you say, We are wise, and the Law of Jehovah is with us? Behold, the lying pen of the scribes has certainly worked deceit.

Did Jesus come as a literal physical person, and was his life was exactly what is written in the gospels?

What you seem to be doing is cobbling together the signs in a haphazard way mixing the flesh and spirit, the literal and figurative.

What I believe is the same spirit that inspired the Hebrew Scriptures, inspired the new and it is not meant to be read literally

The Call of Jeremiah

Jer 1:4 Then the Word of Jehovah was to me, saying,
Jer 1:5 I knew you before I formed you in the belly; and before you came out of the womb, I consecrated you. I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Gal 1:15 But when God was pleased, He having separated me from my mother's belly, and having called me through His grace, Isa. 49:1
Gal 1:16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the nations, immediately I did not confer with flesh and blood,

Isa 49:1 Hear Me, coastlands, and you people from afar, and prick up your ear, Jehovah called Me from the womb; He mentioned My name from My mother's belly.
Isa 49:2 And He made My mouth like a sharp sword; He hid Me in the shadow of His hand, and made Me a polished arrow; He hid Me in His quiver;
Isa 49:3 and said to Me, You are My servant, Israel, You in whom I shall be glorified.
Isa 49:4 Then I said, I have labored in vain; I have spent My strength for nothing, and in vain; yet surely My judgment is with Jehovah, and My work with My God.
Isa 49:5 And now, says Jehovah who formed Me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob back to Him: Though Israel is not gathered, yet I am honored in the eye of Jehovah, and My God is My strength.
Isa 49:6 And He said, It is too little that You should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You for a light of the nations, that You may be My salvation to the end of the earth.

Time with time, sign with sign, like with like from the Old and new need to be put in the correct order, to understand

Jer 23:20 The anger of Jehovah shall not turn back until He has executed, and until He has set up the purposes of His heart. In latter days you shall understand it perfectly.
Jer 23:21 I have not sent the prophets, yet they ran; I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
Jer 23:22 But if they had stood in My counsel and had caused My people to hear My Words, then they would have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.


1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of a man within him? So also no one has known the things of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:13 Which things we also speak, not in words taught in human wisdom, but in Words taught of the Holy Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But the spiritual one discerns all things, but he is discerned by no one.
1Co 2:16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord?" "Who will teach Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. Isa. 40:13
Again, you don't seem to have any understanding of the scriptures you are quoting simply because you don't history and it is a lot of history. I Am not trying to insult you, I know how hard it is to understand even with people who read the bible hours everyday.

Again, what happened after Jeremiah said what he said?

The Jews of Judah fell into the lawlessnes and paganism that wiped out the kingdom of Israel and left Judah alone, and AFTER God said that, he took them to Babylon where he refined them as Gold, and what you are doing is taking the lawlessnes and paganism of the Jews back then to try and put on tne heads of Jews during Jesus time.

Again, what is so bizarre is that Christianity commits the same sins that killed the house of Israel and tempted some of the Jews to be lawless and pagan where Jews are no longer lawless and pagan and Gentiles and now lawless and pagan Gentiles are calling out the Jews who were lawless and pagan, LOL, you can't make this stuff up.....

I don't know how people live with such contradictions because I know that it would be impossible for me, it would be impossible for me to deny historical fact because if I deny what actually happened, I would be lying to myself, and what good would that be?

You do what all the Christians do, you begin with a lawless pagan, anti Semitic Christianity as if Jesus came converting Gentiles to a lawless pagan religion that was set on killing his own people.

You begin by taking a lawless pagan Christianity trying to fit it within the New Testament and you are reading things spoken to Gentile converts to Judaism thinking they apply to Gentiles of another religion......Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism for 100 years, and this is why Christians don't have a chance of understanding what the New Testament is all about, and the fact that Christians don't know the difference between Ephraim and Judah only adds to that ignorance where we witness Christians taking the history of one people to put on the heads of another people.........

If Christians would only learn the history of the kingdom of Ephraim, they might have have a chance of understanding but until they do, it is almost useless. If you don't know the history of the two kingdoms and the differences between two nations, it is impossible that a Christian understand his relationship with God and what the New Testament is teaching Gentiles.

Gentiles are only grafted and adopted through the promise to the lost ten tribes named,'' Ephraim.''

If you don't know the whole history of the kingdom of Ephraim and it's people, there is no way possible to obtain the covenant, there ks ni way possinle for a Gentile not to commit the same sins that the ten tribes committed, and there is no way possible for a Gentile to become a co heir with Jews unless he is grafted through Ephraim in repentence to his lawlessness and paganism.

Those first Gentiles understood, and they actually came under the covenant of Jesus and became Ephraim, that was them.

Christians are no longer under the covenant of Jesus simply because they no longer choose to be grafted and adopted...

This is what is so tradgic, a billion Christians assuming they are under a covenant with Jesus when they are not under the new covenant at all, and because theh don't know they are not in the covenant, theh wont do anything about, instead, they just go along pretending they are in a covenant that they are not in, as if the actual written covenant means nothing at all......

It is like coming upon a nation of blind people who have no concept of blindness and you are offering tbem sight but they dont get it because they don't have a concept of sight and they say,'' We see just fine.''

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 12-06-2018 at 03:56 PM..
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:25 AM
 
2,303 posts, read 625,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
strange....I believe in the principle that should be the foundation for any law, but all too often is lost in the words of imperfect laws... or possibly imperfectly understood laws.

The law of God expresses the perfect nature of God, the problem is not with the law but humanity who can NEVER keep it perfectly.........
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:51 AM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,104,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
The law of God expresses the perfect nature of God, the problem is not with the law but humanity who can NEVER keep it perfectly.........
Well, if you knew your bible, you would know that Jesus Christ expressed it perfectly. Love is the fulfillment of it and when we abide in love we are fullfilling the law. Romans 13:10.
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Old 12-23-2018, 07:09 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,237 posts, read 653,284 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
The law of God expresses the perfect nature of God, the problem is not with the law but humanity who can NEVER keep it perfectly.........
It seems to me that humanity is not required to keep the law perfectly, but they are to use their common sense to know truth and lies when they see/hear it.
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Old 12-23-2018, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Somerset, KY
320 posts, read 41,506 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
The law of God expresses the perfect nature of God, the problem is not with the law but humanity who can NEVER keep it perfectly.........
Jesus expresses the perfect nature of God. If you have seen Him, you have seen the Father. No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son has declared Him. God always has been and always will be Jesus. (He never changes.)

The New Covenant was the plan from the very start. The Lamb was slain from before the foundations of the world according to Revelation 13. If it wasn't the original plan, that means that God screwed up and had to try something different.

The law was the CHOICE of the people who didn't have an understanding of the nature of God. It still is. The same way Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit of the "law" tree (the knowledge of good and evil), the people in Exodus 19 refused to meet with God and sent Moses to report what God said to them instead. He came back with the law. Any time you chose to hear God thru another man instead of meeting with Him yourself, the end result will be being under the (a) law.

The law never made anyone righteous (and never will). It was "added because of transgression" to keep the people safe (prevent them from doing stupid things) until they could come into the fullness of faith after Jesus revealed the Father. This is the same thing that our natural parents do until we are mature enough to have our freedom. We are under their law until we are 18. Some of the Old Testament people had a revelation of God (Abraham was justified by faith) but most did not.

If you want to see the "perfect nature of God" look at Jesus, not at the stop-gap measure put in place because the people couldn't see Him.

Now that I've quoted half of Galatians, allow me to say that it's a good read, and I highly recommend it.

Last edited by hball72; 12-23-2018 at 09:00 PM..
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:49 PM
 
20,389 posts, read 9,825,009 times
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If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
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Old 12-23-2018, 10:54 PM
 
2,303 posts, read 625,737 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2 View Post
It seems to me that humanity is not required to keep the law perfectly, but they are to use their common sense to know truth and lies when they see/hear it.
find the verse that says we can TRY to keep the law and its ok......
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Old 12-23-2018, 10:57 PM
 
2,303 posts, read 625,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well, if you knew your bible, you would know that Jesus Christ expressed it perfectly. Love is the fulfillment of it and when we abide in love we are fullfilling the law. Romans 13:10.
Jesus kept the law we can't......how are you doing with the perfect love thing? ever mess up on occasion?
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