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Old 11-17-2018, 08:08 PM
 
17,570 posts, read 10,630,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Because heís a Jew expounding on a Jewish book?...Itís our book, what gives the Christians the right to co-opt it and modify it?...Since Buddhism sprang from Hinduism, would you ask a Buddhist to explain Hinduism to you or would you ask a Hindu to explain Hinduism to you?...
Being a Jew does not make him right. Look at all the rebellious and apostate High Priest in the Hebrew scriptures.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
As with any theological question, it is dangerous to hang your hat on just one verse. John 14 is by no means supportive of your point, beyond a surface interpretation of terms. Consider Luke 17:20-21.

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Satan is the leader of a rebel kingdom in contest with the kingdom of God for the obedience of men. Satan is the ruler of the fallen HUMAN world and system of rebellion. But it's pretty much understood by Christians (who read the Bible) that Satan has no power, besides death, over anything on Earth except carnal humans who choose to obey him rather than God. Beyond them, Satan has no power. The children of God will inherit the Earth and the eternal kingdom of God. For now, they only await the full realization of the eternal kingdom God made them which cannot be undone, thwarted or otherwise nullified by anything Satan does.
You are agreeing with me.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
The type of God we see in the OT didn't turn Satan into dust right on the spot, as you hypothesize, so your assertion is.... demonstrably false.

The ability you speak of, that Satan has, is the ability to choose whom he will serve. Why would God NOT grant him the ability to make such a choice? Would God need to be worried about something? And it's the same choice you and I have. The choice whom we will serve. There is an expanse of time allotted for making this choice. And then the time will end and eternity will be set in stone. So, you'll get your hypothesis granted in the long run, just not exactly as you would expect.

God isn't worried about anything going wrong with this option. It's not like you can accomplish anything by rebelling, except gaining nothing. God is all powerful. He cannot be thwarted.
Yes, it is not about power, it is about giving Satan an opportunity to show his words to Eve were true or false. That takes evidence not power.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Makes no sense, as is claimed that Jesus is G-d, that Satan would tempt G-d with the things that are G-dís...Do you folks really listen to yourselves when you talk?...
You are right. Trying to get Jesus to sin would be a final rebellion against God and thus Jesus cannot be God. He is God's sin and the one who would win the battle for God or lose it.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It makes perfect sense. Again, God's plan is for Jesus to take possession of the Kingdoms of the world according to His plan and schedule. Satan tempted Jesus to take possession of the kingdoms of the world in a way not consistent with the Father's plan. If Jesus had worshiped Satan as the condition for being given the kingdoms of the world He would have been outside of the Father's will. He would have sinned and He would have been disqualified to go to the cross to die for our sins, and there would have been no salvation.
Thus Jesus could not be God.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It makes perfect sense. Again, God's plan is for Jesus to take possession of the Kingdoms of the world according to His plan and schedule. Satan tempted Jesus to take possession of the kingdoms of the world in a way not consistent with the Father's plan. If Jesus had worshiped Satan as the condition for being given the kingdoms of the world He would have been outside of the Father's will. He would have sinned and He would have been disqualified to go to the cross to die for our sins, and there would have been no salvation.
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Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Thus Jesus could not be God.
That's not true. But it's also not the topic of the thread.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:35 PM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,829 posts, read 13,421,966 times
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Some Christians have some exceedingly bizarre ideas.

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Old 11-18-2018, 04:00 AM
 
Location: US
27,985 posts, read 15,057,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It makes perfect sense. Again, God's plan is for Jesus to take possession of the Kingdoms of the world according to His plan and schedule. Satan tempted Jesus to take possession of the kingdoms of the world in a way not consistent with the Father's plan. If Jesus had worshiped Satan as the condition for being given the kingdoms of the world He would have been outside of the Father's will. He would have sinned and He would have been disqualified to go to the cross to die for our sins, and there would have been no salvation.
Why would Satan ask his Creator to worship him, knowing full well Who he was talking to?...
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Old 11-18-2018, 04:03 AM
 
Location: US
27,985 posts, read 15,057,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Being a Jew does not make him right. Look at all the rebellious and apostate High Priest in the Hebrew scriptures.
Would you care to name those Kohen HaGadol?...
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:54 AM
 
21,870 posts, read 16,696,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Why would Satan ask his Creator to worship him, knowing full well Who he was talking to?...
While Jesus is fully God He is also fully human. But His humanity is completely separate from His deity. This has to do with the doctrine of the hypostatic union of Jesus. As God Jesus was not temptable. But as a man He could be tempted. Jesus was led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit to be tested in His humanity and was tempted by Satan. And so Satan tempted the humanity of Jesus to take possession of the kingdoms of the world if He would worship him.
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