Why is the devil permitted to rule to world (christian only, since this THE christian forum) (verse, moral)
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I hope I am allowed to start this thread, I saw the other one, that had been locked, but it looks like that was closed due to the VERY long copy/paste and the jewish references.
This is a thread subject that is really very interesting to me, and I think it should be a great discussion, so lets avoid super long copy/pasting, and lets keep it a christian viewpoint,(if other denominations would like to discuss the same thing on their forum, thats great, but this is a christian board).
OK...
In another thread that this came up, I likened it to this scenario...you are married and have a family, some other guy is jealous of what you have and attempts to take your spot, rebels against you, etc. so you overcome him and cast him out of your life...BUT then you ALLOW him to still have access to and be able to influence your wife and kids...???
What kind of sense is that?
It makes a lot of sense to those Christians who toy with fetishes and sin in their lives.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.
It is often taught in the post-modern church that grace allows sin. For instance, I attended a Baptist church which hosted a guest speaker from a local Bible college. The speaker delivered a scholarly sermon on grace, but ended by shooting himself in the foot. His last line was, "go out and sin this week that grace may abound."
THIS is the sort of garbage that's being taught in our churches these days. If Christians are being taught its ok to sin, then to sin they go.
It's been my experience that Christians rise to the challenge set before them.
The problem is that the church leaders have become a nest of vipers that spew poison into the ears of everyone who listens. If the gospel is dumbed down, then the congregation becomes as low as the message they're hearing. If the gospel raises hard truths about God and what He expects of us, then the flock will respond and live accordingly. Most preachers aren't worth the dirt they speak.
It is better to refuse to attend an apostate church than to sit there and let their poison infect one's spirit.
Jesus said that He "did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it." Matthew 5:17
This means that the Law outlines how Jew and Gentile alike are expected to live before God. It means we are called to pick up our cross every day as a living sacrifice unto God. Grace points us to the Law and tells us what to do. God forgives and we act accordingly.
When Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery, He told her to go and sin no more. He didn't tell her she could go out and open a brothel.
Go and do likewise and you will live. Refuse and the Second Death will be your destiny.
It makes a lot of sense to those Christians who toy with fetishes and sin in their lives.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.
It is often taught in the post-modern church that grace allows sin. For instance, I attended a Baptist church which hosted a guest speaker from a local Bible college. The speaker delivered a scholarly sermon on grace, but ended by shooting himself in the foot. His last line was, "go out and sin this week that grace may abound."
THIS is the sort of garbage that's being taught in our churches these days. If Christians are being taught its ok to sin, then to sin they go.
It's been my experience that Christians rise to the challenge set before them.
The problem is that the church leaders have become a nest of vipers that spew poison into the ears of everyone who listens. If the gospel is dumbed down, then the congregation becomes as low as the message they're hearing. If the gospel raises hard truths about God and what He expects of us, then the flock will respond and live accordingly. Most preachers aren't worth the dirt they speak.
It is better to refuse to attend an apostate church than to sit there and let their poison infect one's spirit.
Jesus said that He "did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it." Matthew 5:17
This means that the Law outlines how Jew and Gentile alike are expected to live before God. It means we are called to pick up our cross every day as a living sacrifice unto God. Grace points us to the Law and tells us what to do. God forgives and we act accordingly.
When Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery, He told her to go and sin no more. He didn't tell her she could go out and open a brothel.
Go and do likewise and you will live. Refuse and the Second Death will be your destiny.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
Scare tactics have never served a purpose, except for controlling the gullible or to frighten children.
Humans are only part of God's creation. God is demonstrating to all of creation, however extensive that creation is, and in whatever and in how many different realms of existence there are, the results of the creature being in opposition to the Creator.
Nor is it God's plan that results in anyone taking the side of Satan. That is a matter of volition on the part of those who do. God gave both man and the beings who inhabit the spirit realm the ability to make choices. Since created beings are not God they are capable of failure. God, having foreseen the fall of man, made a way of restoring man to relationship with Him. But man must be free to refuse God's provision for salvation if he is to truly have volition. It is the responsibility of each person to decide whether or not to receive God's offer of salvation.
But if a large majority of those created, willingly choose the enemy instead of God....there are implications to that, one of them being that hell WILL indeed 'prevail'...In other words, at the end of time, there will be FAR more souls in hell than in heaven...meaning, the majority of Gods creation chose to serve his enemy.
But if a large majority of those created, willingly choose the enemy instead of God....there are implications to that, one of them being that hell WILL indeed 'prevail'...In other words, at the end of time, there will be FAR more souls in hell than in heaven...meaning, the majority of Gods creation chose to serve his enemy.
But if a large majority of those created, willingly choose the enemy instead of God....there are implications to that, one of them being that hell WILL indeed 'prevail'...In other words, at the end of time, there will be FAR more souls in hell than in heaven...meaning, the majority of Gods creation chose to serve his enemy.
You're referring to Matthew 16:18 and assuming that when Jesus said that the gates of Hades will not prevail (or should it be translated as 'will not withstand it' with reference to Hades not being able to withstand the church?) he was relating that to the issue of how many people would be saved. But that need not be what he was referring to.
Matthew 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
The spiritual conflict going on in human history has different aspects. When Jesus made that statement he and the 12 disciples were in Caesarea Philippi near Mount Hermon. That entire area had great significance in the spiritual conflict between Yahweh and the lesser elohim who oppose Him. Caesarea Philippi had been build and dedicated to Zeus. The god Pan was worshiped there as well. There was a religious center near Mount Hermon where at one time the Jews had worshiped the god Baal. Mount Hermon itself was said in ancient Jewish tradition to be the place where the disobedient sons of God had descended from heaven to the summit of Mt. Hermon and made a pact to take for themselves human wives. Genesis 6:4 speaks of this event.
This is where Jesus and the disciples were standing when Jesus said the gates of Hades would not prevail, or would not withstand the church. And by 'this rock' I do not think that Jesus was referring either to himself or to Peter, but to the place on which they were standing. Jesus was declaring war on the spiritual entities associated with this place.
According to Deuteronomy 32:8-9 and its parallel Deuteronomy 4:19-20, as a result of the tower of Babel incident and man's continuing disobedience, God removed Himself from direct contact with the nations and set the lesser elohim - the divine sons of God in charge over them. At the same time, God called out a new nation for Himself. That nation was Israel. While the Gentile nations worshiped the lesser elohim, Isael was to worship only Yahweh.
The correct translation of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is not '..according to the number of the sons of Israel (the nation Israel didn't yet exist). In both the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint it says '...according to the number of the sons of God' (Dead Sea Scrolls)/ '...according to the angels of God' (the Septuagint). The ESV correctly translates it.
Deut. 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.9] But the LORD’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.
So not only is Satan the ruler of this world at the moment, but other disobedient divine sons of God were set over the nations while Yahweh would rule over Israel which He was about to bring about.
But God's plan is to eventually bring all nations back under his control and the cross was a necessary part in achieving this. And this is the context in which Jesus spoke of the gates of Hades not being able to prevail, or to withstand the church. Jesus was not referring to how many people would choose Satan over God, but was referring to taking the nations back under His control.
Read this short article by Old Testament scholar Michael Heiser regarding this.
But if a large majority of those created, willingly choose the enemy instead of God....there are implications to that, one of them being that hell WILL indeed 'prevail'...In other words, at the end of time, there will be FAR more souls in hell than in heaven...meaning, the majority of Gods creation chose to serve his enemy.
Actually Hell loses as well. Only those who are in rebellion at the End will have no further opportunity at life. Virtually all those who have died since Abel will have hope of a resurrection. More will ultimately turn to God in the time when Satan is in the pit and cannot impact man. A large number will still rebel once Satan is allowed free for a short period. They will then be perfect so each makes his own decision to act like either Adam or Jesus.
Note hell is emptied.
KJV Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
The judging is not on past works as death is the price of sin and all sin ends then for each individual. They are judged on how they respond to Satan at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus.
Paul spoke of even the high priest and other opposers having such a "hope".
KJV Acts 24:1 And after five days Ananias the high priest descended with the elders, and with a certain orator named Tertullus, who informed the governor against Paul.
No hope if judged on past sins.
KJV Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the justand unjust.
I just wanted to point out that most of the posts in this thread are doing the equivalent of going onto a Doctor Who thread in a discussion about questions pertaining to the world and canon and rules set in the tv show and saying, “It doesn’t matter because it’s just a tv show”, “I only recognize the original series anything you quote from the new series is garbage”, or “Doctor Who sucks”.
Whether or not you like or believe this topic has nothing to do with the question being discussed. This thread and many theology threads are 80% people posting bashes unrelated to the point of the discussion and very few actually discussing or debating the point.
I literally found this website and have read about a dozen different threads and I’m already so over it. It’s obnoxious. I also find it completely rude and disrespectfully.
The OP was very clear in his question and what he wanted to discuss.
Constantly replying nope to a post or God Is NOt rEaLing every discussion point is annoying.
Some people want to actually have a profitable discussion about a topic.
And bonus annoyance because I’ve looked at lots of threads between 10+years ago to this one that came out last month and see a lot of the same people making these obtrusive posts in all of them.
And I am sure the reverse happens with “Christians” taking over and making unnecessary/unwanted comments on random threads.
Where’s y’alls manners?
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