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Old 12-12-2018, 05:48 PM
 
Location: US
27,954 posts, read 15,043,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Basically true. The key is what "thought process" you should develop. Many develop the one from Satan.
The Christian Satan does not exist in Judaism...
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Somerset, KY
317 posts, read 39,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, when are you going to sacrifice yourself on a cross?...
Not in my future plans, but you never know.
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:53 PM
 
Location: New England
32,222 posts, read 21,097,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hball72 View Post
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

I have the mind of Christ because I'm His image. Listening to it consistently is the hard part.
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:54 PM
 
Location: New England
32,222 posts, read 21,097,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, when are you going to sacrifice yourself on a cross?...
Why would he Richard ?.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:23 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 9,819,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
The key is what "thought process" you should develop.

Many develop the one from Satan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
The Christian Satan does not exist in Judaism...
... it doesn't exist anywhere, except within the human nature and the imagination.
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Old 12-12-2018, 11:32 PM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 19 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,775 posts, read 13,404,281 times
Reputation: 11668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
... it doesn't exist anywhere, except within the human nature and the imagination.
Immature imaginations can be fertile ground for malignant seeds to be sown.

Which is why I rue fecund fundies.
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Old 12-13-2018, 03:08 AM
 
Location: US
27,954 posts, read 15,043,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Why would he Richard ?.
Read what he said...
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Old 12-13-2018, 03:10 AM
 
Location: US
27,954 posts, read 15,043,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Immature imaginations can be fertile ground for malignant seeds to be sown.

Which is why I rue fecund fundies.
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Old 12-13-2018, 04:29 AM
 
Location: New England
32,222 posts, read 21,097,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Read what he said...
I did.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:51 AM
 
30 posts, read 4,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
To me, certainly the figurative genuine 'wheat' Christians would believe the devil is permitted to rule because calls Satan the god of this world (of badness).
Does the Bible really say a fallen angel named "Satan" is the God of this world? I think you're referring to this verse:

(2 Cor 4:4 KJV) "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Does this say there is a God of this world? Of course it does, but the question is, does that verse say the God of this world is a fallen spiritual being? Of course it doesn't! However if we let the
Bible interpret the Bible we can see who the God of this world really is. We see that God is the God of this world (Psalms 24:1; 50:7, 12). We also see that it is God that blinds the minds of the
unbelieving (2 Thes 2:11; Isa 29:10; 44:18). Do we believe 2 Cor 4:1-4 is speaking of a fallen angel or do we believe the Bible that the attributes mentioned in that passage belong to God Almighty? Do we make another god by giving God's attributes to a fictitious being?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Plus, gospel writer John wrote at that the whole world lies in the power of the wicked one.
Not sure which verse(s) you're speaking of but of the four times the term "evil one" is used in the book of 1 John in the KJV none are literally translated "evil one" the word "one" doesn't exist in the Greek. Not once is the implied "evil one" ever said to be a fallen angel or named "Satan."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Also, says 'woe' because the devil has come down to you....
I believe you are referring to this verse:

KJV Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The book of Revelation is a book of symbolism and must be understood within this light. This "satan" is "coming down" to the earth to the future of John in the first century A.D. (Rev 1:1, 19; 4:1; 22:6)and even then "he" only has a "short" time. How can this apply to a "fallen-angel" that was cast to earth before man was created? And if this could, somehow be applied before John's day, which I don't think it can would the time from when man was created to John's day be a "short" time?

Revelation does, indeed speak of a "satan"/"devil" but it never says this entity is a fallen-angel. In fact if I read about "satan" or "the devil" within the context of the book of Revelation, it's seems this "satan/devil" is simply a government of man in opposition to God.

This "satan" (adversary) or "devil" (false accuser) is identified in Revelation as something other than a fallen-angel.

This dragon, the old serpent, called the "devil" (false accuser) and "satan" (adversary) is described as having seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns upon his heads and is scarlet or red:

(Rev 12:3 KJV) "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

And we see this "devil"/"satan" being described in Rev 17. He was "red" or "scarlet" and he had seven heads and ten horns.

(Rev 17:3 KJV) "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

But we find out what heads and horns of this "devil" are just a few verses down:

(Rev 17:9-12 KJV) "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains (symbolism for kingdoms), on which the woman sitteth. {10} >>>And there are seven kings<<<:...{12} And the ten horns which thou sawest are >>>ten kings<<<, which have received no kingdom as yet; ..."

So, according to Revelation this "satan"/"devil" is simply humanly "ruled" kingdoms in opposition to God. This coincides with the term dragon, which in Scripture refers to the government of man in opposition to God's government. We see that Pharaoh was called a "great dragon" (Eze 29:3) and the kingdom of Babylon is likened unto a dragon (Isa 51:34).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
So, then it would be the fake 'weed/tares' Christians who are the ones who do Not believe the devil is permitted to rule.
Does not the Bible say God rules in the kingdoms of men and it is He who decides will rule in it (Dan 4:17, 25, 32; 5:21; Jer 27:5)?

Last edited by brndnms; 12-13-2018 at 09:13 AM..
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