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Old 11-16-2018, 09:29 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
So that means Satan is just doing exactly what he is created for though...no rebelling or battling with God, getting tossed out of heaven, etc
Yup...
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
Was Adam and Eves eating of the fruit evil?

If so they wouldn’t have known what evil actually is until AFTER eating the fruit, right expactCA?
First you have to understand what the word 'evil" means in context.


7451 [r; ra` {rah}
Meaning: adj 1) bad, evil 1a) bad, disagreeable, malignant 1b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery) 1c) evil, displeasing 1d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc) 1e) bad (of value) 1f) worse than, worst (comparison) 1g) sad, unhappy 1h) evil (hurtful) 1i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition) 1j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically) 1j1) in general, of persons, of thoughts 1j2) deeds, actions n m 2) evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity 2a) evil, distress, adversity 2b) evil, injury, wrong 2c) evil (ethical) n f 3) evil, misery, distress, injury 3a) evil, misery, distress 3b) evil, injury, wrong 3c) evil (ethical)



It is bad, giving pain and misery, distress, etc. They knew the repercussions thus knowing it was evil/bad to disobey God.


ASV Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


They knew it was bad or evil to do it. They even knew it would be an evil act and bad for them.


ASV Genesis 3:3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Then Satan did two things and and Adam chose the bad and brought the evil on them.


ASV Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


Accepted that God was a liar.


ASV Genesis 3:5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.


They would be the ones to decide what was good and evil, not God. Thus making their own rules.


From that day on they experienced bad, not just having knowledge of what was bad. They brought it on their children and all humanity. Say thank you Adam.
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:36 AM
 
17,521 posts, read 10,600,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
So that means Satan is just doing exactly what he is created for though...no rebelling or battling with God, getting tossed out of heaven, etc
Nope, he was created to obey and chose to rebel. Freewill allows both choices and God lets everyone make the choice.
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Florida -
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Satan is a created being whose authority is to roam the earth ("seeking whom he may devour") - and fill the 'truth void' created in and by those who will not believe, trust and obey God. He does not RULE the world, but, is worshiped by those who love the world more than God. As a created being, Satan is not equal to God and has no authority over God.

Satan is subject to God's authority and is already a defeated, along with sin and death; his end and destruction are already determined. Satan cannot and does not force anyone to do anything, but, will gladly lead all who follow their flesh and his ways astray. Likewise, God does not 'force' anyone to do anything, but, leads and saves all who follow His ways and truths.

In short, Satan's limitations come from God, but, his authority in human lives comes from man. James 4:7, further declares, "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." - Some imagine they are resisting Satan in their own power, but, unless one is submitted to God and resisting in God's power, they are deceived. There is no middle ground between submitting to God or submitting to Satan!
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:15 AM
 
20,342 posts, read 9,813,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Satan is a created being whose authority is to roam the earth ("seeking whom he may devour") - and fill the 'truth void' created in and by those who will not believe, trust and obey God. He does not RULE the world, but, is worshiped by those who love the world more than God. As a created being, Satan is not equal to God and has no authority over God.

Satan is subject to God's authority and is already a defeated, along with sin and death; his end and destruction are already determined. Satan cannot and does not force anyone to do anything, but, will gladly lead all who follow their flesh and his ways astray. Likewise, God does not 'force' anyone to do anything, but, leads and saves all who follow His ways and truths.

In short, Satan's limitations come from God, but, his authority in human lives comes from man. James 4:7, further declares, "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." - Some imagine they are resisting Satan in their own power, but, unless one is submitted to God and resisting in God's power, they are deceived. There is no middle ground between submitting to God or submitting to Satan!
Adversity is a principle that results in active resistance, opposition, or contentiousness within the human nature. The Hebrew term for Satan merely describes an adversarial role, whereas, an accuser (slanderer, devil) is known for his unrighteous disposition. However, the principalities and powers of unholy messengers, inculcated the doctrines of demons, devils and Satan in the early views of men; falsely fostering and prospering them. Truth becomes known, when deception falls away (that of self-induced blindness). Christ denounced these doctrines and traditions of men within the Spirit of truth, as the ego driven desires are within men, resist them.

Those who live according to the sinful nature have their mind set on what their nature desires, but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their mind set on what the Spirit wants: Along came the tempter; the lust of the eyes (understanding of the mind), lust of the flesh (a heart of emotion) and the pride of life (the desires of the will). Thus, while the first Adam conceded to all that is in the world (that which extends itself deep down from the surface - yet, is visible through distinctive traits or characteristics common to all humanity); the second Adam stood his ground against the natural disposition of the soul, and the temperament within that of other men.

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Old 11-16-2018, 11:48 AM
 
2,075 posts, read 1,462,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I hope I am allowed to start this thread, I saw the other one, that had been locked, but it looks like that was closed due to the VERY long copy/paste and the jewish references.


This is a thread subject that is really very interesting to me, and I think it should be a great discussion, so lets avoid super long copy/pasting, and lets keep it a christian viewpoint,(if other denominations would like to discuss the same thing on their forum, thats great, but this is a christian board).


OK...


In another thread that this came up, I likened it to this scenario...you are married and have a family, some other guy is jealous of what you have and attempts to take your spot, rebels against you, etc. so you overcome him and cast him out of your life...BUT then you ALLOW him to still have access to and be able to influence your wife and kids...???


What kind of sense is that?
Your scenario is faulty. Each person has a choice to make whom they will be influenced by. If you overcome the devil, then you cast him out of your life. If you do not, then it is evidence that you have NOT overcome the devil. But... it's your decision. Not the devil's. Your wife and kids have the same individual choice. Humans either obey him by choice when they allow themselves to be ruled over by their natural carnal impulses - or they choose to follow the will of God as their father. If they choose the latter, Satan has no power over them.

The devil doesn't rule the world. The devil temporarily rules over carnal humans who choose to do the devil's will in accordance with their natures. The devil doesn't rule over nature, or over animals or over plants or over the fate of the earth. He rules over fallen humans.

Jesus is the king of all creation. The world is HIS. Satan is just rebelling and causing others to rebel.

Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 11-16-2018 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:51 AM
 
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By the way, the only thing roaming the earth is the religion of men.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:04 PM
 
17,521 posts, read 10,600,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Satan is a created being whose authority is to roam the earth ("seeking whom he may devour") - and fill the 'truth void' created in and by those who will not believe, trust and obey God. He does not RULE the world, but, is worshiped by those who love the world more than God. As a created being, Satan is not equal to God and has no authority over God.

Satan is subject to God's authority and is already a defeated, along with sin and death; his end and destruction are already determined. Satan cannot and does not force anyone to do anything, but, will gladly lead all who follow their flesh and his ways astray. Likewise, God does not 'force' anyone to do anything, but, leads and saves all who follow His ways and truths.

In short, Satan's limitations come from God, but, his authority in human lives comes from man. James 4:7, further declares, "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." - Some imagine they are resisting Satan in their own power, but, unless one is submitted to God and resisting in God's power, they are deceived. There is no middle ground between submitting to God or submitting to Satan!
Yes, Satan has no right of rule. His rule is not given to him by God. People give him the power of ruler ship by allowing him to guide and direct them. This is both at an individual level and a a National/Governmental level.



Like Adam, people are choosing one or the other as there are only those two choices.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:15 PM
 
17,521 posts, read 10,600,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin View Post
Your scenario is faulty. Each person has a choice to make whom they will be influenced by. If you overcome the devil, then you cast him out of your life. If you do not, then it is evidence that you have NOT overcome the devil. But... it's your decision. Not the devil's. Your wife and kids have the same individual choice. Humans either obey him by choice when they allow themselves to be ruled over by their natural carnal impulses - or they choose to follow the will of God as their father. If they choose the latter, Satan has no power over them.

The devil doesn't rule the world. The devil temporarily rules over carnal humans who choose to do the devil's will in accordance with their natures. The devil doesn't rule over nature, or over animals or over plants or over the fate of the earth. He rules over fallen humans.

Jesus is the king of all creation. The world is HIS. Satan is just rebelling and causing others to rebel.
Actually Jesus' rulership is in conflict with Satan's. Satan rules the world and Nations by their acceptance and following his ways. Jesus is still at war with such which is why we still pray for that kingdom to come and God's will to be done on earth.



Satan is in rebellion and the "world" has accepted his rulership.





Jesus was very plain about this.


KJV John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.


NKJ John 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.


The Greek word used in this spot is Archon which means.

758 a;rcwn archon {ar'-khone}
Meaning: 1) a ruler, commander, chief, leader
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:29 PM
 
4,697 posts, read 1,217,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I hope I am allowed to start this thread, I saw the other one, that had been locked, but it looks like that was closed due to the VERY long copy/paste and the jewish references.


This is a thread subject that is really very interesting to me, and I think it should be a great discussion, so lets avoid super long copy/pasting, and lets keep it a christian viewpoint,(if other denominations would like to discuss the same thing on their forum, thats great, but this is a christian board).


OK...


In another thread that this came up, I likened it to this scenario...you are married and have a family, some other guy is jealous of what you have and attempts to take your spot, rebels against you, etc. so you overcome him and cast him out of your life...BUT then you ALLOW him to still have access to and be able to influence your wife and kids...???


What kind of sense is that?
hum well there is more than one such intity.. maybe up to 1/3 of heaven fell with him..
so like when there is 10 kids in a family each child seems to try to find his own nitch in the family. so as soon as you take satan out some well another entity takes his place. because power over others is the real issue.

though we wish to was as simple as "good and evil" .. it is not quite all the problems that have come from the first falling shorts and since those first deceptions, it has only grown .. because the chasm of life and death has grown ( Isa 5:14

Therefore Sheol has enlarged its [fn]throat and opened its mouth without measure;
And [fn]Jerusalem's splendor, her multitude, her din of revelry and the jubilant within her, descend into it.
) as well as the chasm between the two has grown.. because life and death were seeds like on those two trees and they sprouted and have reproduced forrests since back then.
the plan then it SEEMS has to be FOR HIM ( THE LoRD )to deal with all the problem all at once .. or someone else would just take someones place and that still leaves the forests still growing with bad seeds of abuse and usurping powers.
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