U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-05-2019, 07:54 PM
 
Location: US
27,985 posts, read 15,057,939 times
Reputation: 1747

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yep, the question was about Satan ruling and he did and does. He did in 33AD, though he lost his claim and he still does yet for a short time today, until the final loss occurs. How other religions may view it can be interesting but the thread was about Christianity.
Your Satan does not exist in Judaism...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-05-2019, 07:55 PM
 
17,570 posts, read 10,630,443 times
Reputation: 8482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Your Satan does not exist in Judaism...
(christian only, since this THE christian forum)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2019, 07:55 PM
 
Location: US
27,985 posts, read 15,057,939 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Please try giving an explanation instead of ignoring the issue.
Still wrong...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2019, 08:20 AM
 
30 posts, read 4,513 times
Reputation: 17
God rules in the kingdoms of men and it is He who puts who He wants in charge of those kingdoms (Dan 4:17, 25, 32; 5:21; Psa 75:6). It is He who has all power (Mat 28:18). He owns everything (Deut 10:14; Psa 24:1).

It is He who becomes the enemy of His people (Isa 63:10; Lam 2:4-5):

Deut 28:15-65 CLV 15 It will come to be if you do not hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe and to do all His instructions and His statutes that I am enjoining on you today, that all these maledictions will come on you and overtake you... >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< send the curse, the discomfiture and the rebuke on you in every undertaking of your hand that you shall do, until you are exterminated and you perish quickly, in view of the evil of your actions in which you have forsaken Me. 21 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< cause the plague..22 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< smite you with attenuation, with fever and inflammation, with hot heat and drought, with blasting and mildew, and they will pursue you until you perish...25 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< make you to be struck down before your enemies...8 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< smite you with madness, with blindness and with derangement of heart... 36 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< conduct you and your king, whom you shall set up over you, to a nation whom you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, and you will serve there other elohim of wood and stone...48 then you will serve your enemies whom >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< send forth against you.. 59 then >>>YAHWEH WILL<<< make your smitings and the smitings of your seed extraordinary...63...>>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< be elated over you to destroy you and to exterminate you...64 And >>>YAHWEH WILL<<< scatter you among all the peoples from one end of the earth unto the other end of the earth. There you will serve other elohim...65...>>>YAHWEH WILL<<< give to you there a disturbed heart, a failure of the eyes and pining of the soul.

Do we really need a “devil” to afflict us when God is more than capable and quite willing to become our enemy? God says He's the one causing us our misery and He will not allow His glory to be given to another:

Isaiah 48:10-11 (The Voice) 10 I have refined you, but not in the way silver is refined. Instead, I try you in the furnace of suffering. For God, suffering is not an end in itself. God uses suffering and hardship to purge the bad and foster the good in His covenant people. 11 But it is all on account of Me, not of you, that I act, that I retain honor, that My glory is Mine alone, and not sullied.

If we say all the things God says He does is the work of a false god named "Satan" or "The Devil" are we not sullying God's glory?

Last edited by brndnms; 01-06-2019 at 09:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2019, 09:45 AM
 
1,382 posts, read 487,215 times
Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by brndnms View Post
God rules in the kingdoms of men and it is He who puts who He wants in charge of those kingdoms (Dan 4:17, 25, 32; 5:21; Psa 75:6). It is He who has all power (Mat 28:18). He owns everything (Deut 10:14; Psa 24:1).

It is He who becomes the enemy of His people (Isa 63:10; Lam 2:4-5):

Deut 28:15-65 CLV 15 It will come to be if you do not hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe and to do all His instructions and His statutes that I am enjoining on you today, that all these maledictions will come on you and overtake you... >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< send the curse, the discomfiture and the rebuke on you in every undertaking of your hand that you shall do, until you are exterminated and you perish quickly, in view of the evil of your actions in which you have forsaken Me. 21 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< cause the plague..22 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< smite you with attenuation, with fever and inflammation, with hot heat and drought, with blasting and mildew, and they will pursue you until you perish...25 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< make you to be struck down before your enemies...8 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< smite you with madness, with blindness and with derangement of heart... 36 >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< conduct you and your king, whom you shall set up over you, to a nation whom you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, and you will serve there other elohim of wood and stone...48 then you will serve your enemies whom >>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< send forth against you.. 59 then >>>YAHWEH WILL<<< make your smitings and the smitings of your seed extraordinary...63...>>>YAHWEH SHALL<<< be elated over you to destroy you and to exterminate you...64 And >>>YAHWEH WILL<<< scatter you among all the peoples from one end of the earth unto the other end of the earth. There you will serve other elohim...65...>>>YAHWEH WILL<<< give to you there a disturbed heart, a failure of the eyes and pining of the soul.

Do we really need a “devil” to afflict us when God is more than capable and quite willing to become our enemy? God says He's the one causing us our misery and He will not allow His glory to be given to another:

Isaiah 48:10-11 (The Voice) 10 I have refined you, but not in the way silver is refined. Instead, I try you in the furnace of suffering. For God, suffering is not an end in itself. God uses suffering and hardship to purge the bad and foster the good in His covenant people. 11 But it is all on account of Me, not of you, that I act, that I retain honor, that My glory is Mine alone, and not sullied.

If we say all the things God says He does is the work of a false god named "Satan" or "The Devil" are we not sullying God's glory?

God gives leadership to whom he pleases. The authority of the "leader" of the world, has been the "dragon"/devil/serpent/Satan (Revelation 13:4). This beast has brought "judgment" upon "Judah" and "Ephraim" (house of Israel)(Hosea 5), which will end after "two days"/2000 years, upon which time, the "dragon"/"devil" will be "bound for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:2). After two thousand years, the "devil"/"Satan" will apparently find a permanent home in the "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10). Apparently, as the "dragon" poises as the sun god, and the sun being a lake of fire in itself, it seems proper that he should return home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2019, 12:15 PM
 
Location: central Florida
981 posts, read 356,534 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I hope I am allowed to start this thread, I saw the other one, that had been locked, but it looks like that was closed due to the VERY long copy/paste and the jewish references.


This is a thread subject that is really very interesting to me, and I think it should be a great discussion, so lets avoid super long copy/pasting, and lets keep it a christian viewpoint,(if other denominations would like to discuss the same thing on their forum, thats great, but this is a christian board).


OK...


In another thread that this came up, I likened it to this scenario...you are married and have a family, some other guy is jealous of what you have and attempts to take your spot, rebels against you, etc. so you overcome him and cast him out of your life...BUT then you ALLOW him to still have access to and be able to influence your wife and kids...???


What kind of sense is that?
Why is the devil permitted to rule the world?

BECAUSE WE WANT HIM TO RULE THE WORLD.

According to the Bible (read Genesis 3), WE have given the devil the authority once granted to us.
According to St. Paul (read Romans), authority is given to that which we obey. It is given by means of what we do with our hands.

If God is the authority in our lives, then all we do (with our hands) will be done according to God's will.
If satan is the authority in our lives, then all we do (with our hands) will be done according to satan's will.

What is happening in the world? Is it kindness and expressions of love or is it war and murder and thievery and violence and lies? On whose behalf are these deeds done?

By the deeds of your hands will man and God know to what authority they are devoted.

For instance, in America hypocritical religious persons claim to serve God (turn the other cheek, remember?) and applaud the bombing destruction and illegal warmongering perpetuated upon nations that have not injured us at all. To whom have we granted authority if not satan?

Satan has global authority because that's what we want.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2019, 12:35 PM
 
3,659 posts, read 1,137,592 times
Reputation: 705
You worship a god that commands people to kill other people.

Did the devil ever do that Choir Loft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
WHAT THE LAW OF MOSES SAYS:

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.

They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

- Leviticus 20:13
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2019, 05:26 PM
 
Location: US
27,985 posts, read 15,057,939 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
(christian only, since this THE christian forum)
But yet you claim Judaism as your forerunner...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2019, 06:10 PM
 
5,965 posts, read 1,704,003 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Nope...
So how do you know who the Levites are?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2019, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,833 posts, read 4,973,776 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
So how do you know who the Levites are?
Through their actions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top