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The mother implies a great deal, and is attempting to use Catholic or Protestant beliefs to support her contentions, so which one do you follow? Or, do you even see a difference between them. What are you calling Christianity, the Scriptures, the Churches or the fact that someone professes Christ Jesus as "Lord and Savior?" Because I surly do not follow the creeds of men.
It depends on which part you are referring to. The Mormon Jesus is different from what all other Christians, Catholic or Protestant, have as Jesus. God's only son. Lucifer is not his brother. He's a fallen angel. That is one of the points she addressed.
No other Christian denomination has levels of 'Heaven' either. The Celestial Kingdom only exists for Mormons. Only Mormons believe they can become Gods. She is pointing out all the things that set Mormons apart from other Christians.
In her view, she was led away from core Christian beliefs by the Mormon church. Even the Godhead is different.
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....as long as Mormonism reveres Joseph Smith as a prophet, teaches that Christ failed to establish a Church that would last but Smith did, and supports his extra-biblical scriptures as truth, these teachings are far outside mainstream Christianity. Doctrines such as the nature of God, who Jesus is, the condition of humankind, the creation, salvation, atonement, marriage and eternal life are just a few of the divergent teachings.
That is contradictory. What is the point of Jesus dying on the cross for us if we have to follow this (newish) law? The Mormon version of the law?
The entire point of Jesus was to fulfill the (Jewish) law of the time. We could have just all stayed Jews and followed that law if God was going to make following the law a condition.
Jesus did all that for nothing???????????????????
Anyway, this is what she means by different definition of Atonement than other Christians.
The mother implies a great deal, and is attempting to use Catholic or Protestant beliefs to support her contentions, so which one do you follow? Or, do you even see a difference between them. What are you calling Christianity; the Scriptures, the Churches or the fact that someone professes Christ Jesus as "Lord and Savior?" Because I surely do not follow the creeds of men.
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Originally Posted by jencam
It depends on which part you are referring to. The Mormon Jesus is different from what all other Christians, Catholic or Protestant, have as Jesus. God's only son. Lucifer is not his brother. He's a fallen angel. That is one of the points she addressed.
No other Christian denomination has levels of 'Heaven' either. The Celestial Kingdom only exists for Mormons. Only Mormons believe they can become Gods. She is pointing out all the things that set Mormons apart from other Christians.
In her view, she was led away from core Christian beliefs by the Mormon church. Even the Godhead is different.
Quote:
....as long as Mormonism reveres Joseph Smith as a prophet, teaches that Christ failed to establish a Church that would last but Smith did, and supports his extra-biblical scriptures as truth, these teachings are far outside mainstream Christianity. Doctrines such as the nature of God, who Jesus is, the condition of humankind, the creation, salvation, atonement, marriage and eternal life are just a few of the divergent teachings.
I am not here to discuss Mormonism and it was noted that I disagree with the Penal Substitution theory and that of eternal damnation. So, what are you calling Christianity; the Scriptures, the Churches or the fact that someone professes Christ Jesus as "Lord and Savior?" Which do you follow, the Catholic or Protestant beliefs? What is it that you are calling mainstream Christianity? Because there are all kinds of Christians and those of the Jewish belief that do not follow the ideologies of Satan being a fallen angel or in that of the Trinity. So, where exactly are you drawing the line in the sand?
(BTW- Lucifer is a Latin word that should never have been used in the Bible)
Adversity is a principle that results in active resistance, opposition or contentiousness within the human nature. And the Hebrew term for Satan merely describes an adversarial role (i.e., an adversary). Whereas, an accuser (slanderer or devil) is known for his unrighteous disposition. However, the principalities and powers of unholy (human) messengers, inculcated the doctrines of demons, devils and Satan in the earlier views of Christianism; falsely fostering and prospering them. Truth becomes known, when deception falls away (that of self-induced blindness). Christ denounced these doctrines and traditions of men within the Spirit of truth, as the ego driven desires are within men; resist them.
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their mind set on what their nature desires, but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their mind set on what the Spirit wants: Along came the tempter; the lust of the eyes (understanding of the mind), lust of the flesh (a heart of emotion) and the pride of life (the desires of the will). Thus, while the first Adam conceded to all that is in the world (that which extends deep down from the surface - yet, it is visible through distinctive traits or characteristics common to all humanity); the second Adam stood his ground against the natural disposition of the soul, and the temperament within that of other men.
And the words, endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal time set for punishment or torment beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time - as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter. And you, nor I have been resurrected to that of having immortality.
Therefore, God's power and divine nature are the only things which are Eternal. And the New Testament has only one word which can truthfully be translated as eternal. This is the Greek word Aidios which is used only twice in the New Testament: For since the creation of the world GODS invisible qualities - His eternal (aidios) power and divine nature have been clearly seen.
If you read Jude 6, 7 - you will see a difference between them, whereas, they do not use the same Greek Word. The fire speaks to that of an age (a period of time), not something that is without a beginning or an end. And the eternal chains that hold them has to do with his eternal power, not all eternity .... Nobody would use two different words two describe the same thing, unless there was a difference in their application. Any divergence or variance is worthy of attention and significant.
Last edited by Jerwade; 12-02-2018 at 11:28 PM..
Reason: Opps!
You are in the wrong thread, then. The topic of the thread is a Mormon missionary who went to convert a congregation of Baptists and got converted himself. Then he took his gf and his family with him.
He was most happy to learn that he was saved just as he is. He didn't need to 'perfect himself' as Mormonism had taught him. They believe souls come to earth as people to perfect themselves, which to him and others is quite a lot of pressure, and to them, and me, simply wrong.
The rest of Christianity teaches that God sent his only son to save us. The End. We do not then have to go and 'be obedient' to 'The One True Church' to earn anything. Salvation is a free gift. Not cheap, free.
Anyone can have it. Merely by believing in Jesus. Jesus came to fulfill the law, not create a new set of laws to follow.
You are in the wrong thread, then. The topic of the thread is a Mormon missionary who went to convert a congregation of Baptists and got converted himself. Then he took his gf and his family with him.
He was most happy to learn that he was saved just as he is. He didn't need to 'perfect himself' as Mormonism had taught him. They believe souls come to earth as people to perfect themselves, which to him and others is quite a lot of pressure, and to them, and me, simply wrong.
The rest of Christianity teaches that God sent his only son to save us. The End. We do not then have to go and 'be obedient' to 'The One True Church' to earn anything. Salvation is a free gift. Not cheap, free.
Anyone can have it. Merely by believing in Jesus. Jesus came to fulfill the law, not create a new set of laws to follow.
The youtube video brought up the ideology of substitution and that of grace?
Which is not a free gift, if someone paid for it. Neither, is it about easy believism.
James 2:18
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
Faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action is dead.
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it's important not to read the wrong message into James's words. At no point does James disconnect salvation from faith. On the contrary, this entire passage is about the fact that we are only saved by faith—but that this faith is more than simply agreement. Saving faith produces works. So, while works do not save, those who are saved will, naturally, demonstrate good works.
The youtube video brought up the ideology of substitution and that of grace?
Which is not a free gift, if someone paid for it. Neither, is it about easy believism.
It's free to us. If I bought you a gift and gave it to you, it is free to you, correct? You don't have to pay anything for it or do anything to keep it. I gave it to you. It's yours. Forever. No matter what you do or do not do.
James 2:18
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
Faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action is dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam
Quote:
it's important not to read the wrong message into James's words. At no point does James disconnect salvation from faith. On the contrary, this entire passage is about the fact that we are only saved by faith—but that this faith is more than simply agreement. Saving faith produces works. So, while works do not save, those who are saved will, naturally, demonstrate good works.
It's important to read what another poster has said, and stop jumping to conclusions about disconnecting salvation from faith. Instead, you should see if your deeds are from the foundation of love which is greater than your faith. For it is the foundation of love that our faith is built on.
The youtube video brought up the ideology of substitution and that of grace?
Which is not a free gift, if someone paid for it. Neither, is it about easy believism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam
It's free to us. If I bought you a gift and gave it to you, it is free to you, correct? You don't have to pay anything for it or do anything to keep it. I gave it to you. It's yours. Forever. No matter what you do or do not do.
Then, you should have no problem laying your life down for that of another?
Or, are you looking for a scapegoat, someone else who must suffer for you.
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