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Old 12-04-2018, 06:26 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,437,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Note to any who may be wondering: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recognize that membership in our Church is not a requirement for a person to be a "true Christian." It is completely inaccurate to say that we don't believe Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, etc. are Christians. It's a flat out lie. If someone tells us that he is a Christian, we will take him at his word. Christians are disciples of Jesus Christ. They look to Him as their Savior. One need not have a perfect understanding of Christian doctrine in order to be a "true Christian."
We were typing at the same time. Mormon missionaries do not take me at my word. They say I do not have the true Revelations of Christ. Also, I don't feel one can have it both ways. I do not feel that one can say theirs is the one and only true church and then say that they are not stating others are not true.

 
Old 12-04-2018, 06:27 PM
 
18,846 posts, read 6,863,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I've got to admit it was entertaining how little this guy understood about his former religion.
Now...I often get told that only a Mormon can tell me what Mormonism REALLY teaches. Now you tell me that a Mormon didn't have a clue. So what is it?
 
Old 12-04-2018, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,727,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
We were typing at the same time. Mormon missionaries do not take me at my word. They say I do not have the true Revelations of Christ.
Rewind to my last post: "One need not have a perfect understanding of Christian doctrine in order to be a 'true Christian'." LDS missionaries do not tell people who claim to be Christians that they are not Christians.
 
Old 12-04-2018, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,727,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Now...I often get told that only a Mormon can tell me what Mormonism REALLY teaches. Now you tell me that a Mormon didn't have a clue. So what is it?
It's hard to believe, huh? But I've known Catholics who don't have a clue that the "Immaculate Conception" is not the same thing as the "Virgin Birth." Even as someone who doesn't accept the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, I know that they are two entirely different things. Some people can be affiliated with a denomination for years and still manage to remain oblivious to what its teachings are. Maybe they sleep through worship services; I don't know.

Also, I read a book once, a book written by a man who, I believe, was at that time the President of Brigham Young University. The book was about Mormonism, but it was directed at a non-LDS audience. In his introduction to that book, he said, "...to date the efforts to explain Mormonism in a nonproseltying way have come from persons who do not share the bedrock beliefs on which the religion is based. That observation is not intended as a criticism; I am willing to assume that such efforts were undertaken in good faith. But if I want to gain an understanding of Chinese culture, I can best obtain it from someone who has not only made a thorough study of things Chinese, but even more importantly, sees the world through Chinese eyes."

I guess the bottom line is that you just have to decide for yourself who to believe. I think most people on this forum have come to trust me to be honest with them about LDS doctrine and most have figured out that I know what I'm talking about when I explain it. There will always be some who think I'm either clueless or dishonest. I don't like that, but there's nothing I can do about it. If you don't believe I am knowledgeable and honest, I would appreciate your telling me why, though.

Last edited by Katzpur; 12-04-2018 at 06:51 PM..
 
Old 12-04-2018, 06:38 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,437,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Rewind to my last post: "One need not have a perfect understanding of Christian doctrine in order to be a 'true Christian'." LDS missionaries do not tell people who claim to be Christians that they are not Christians.
OK, but we can't dwell in the house of the Lord forever as we are taught we will, unless we convert to the one true church, get baptized in it, and follow all of the many ordinances of the LDS church.

Which I am never going to do, so according to LDS church, I can only reach the second level, and that is only if I accept LDS gospel after death.
 
Old 12-04-2018, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
...according to LDS church, I can only reach the second level, and that is only if I accept LDS gospel after death.
Wrong.
 
Old 12-04-2018, 06:49 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,437,873 times
Reputation: 19717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Wrong.
Please elaborate. Since I will never, ever accept Baptism while alive, how could I reach exaltation? I already quoted the D&C that says not only Baptism, but temple marriage is an essential ordinance to get there. Right there in black and white. And that is not the only ordinance, but that is enough to make my point.

ETA:

OK, I read this more carefully. So does this mean that I can do all this stuff after death? If so, that still means I am excluded if I do not agree to after death. At the end, these things must be done at one time or another. Doing things the LDS way is the ONLY way to reach exaltation, a part of which is simply eternal life in the presence of 'Heavenly Father' (who I call God) and Jesus Christ.

Quote:
He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

We must be baptized.

We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.

We must receive the temple endowment.

We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-pr...ation?lang=eng

Last edited by jencam; 12-04-2018 at 07:01 PM..
 
Old 12-04-2018, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,192,722 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
It's hard to believe, huh? But I've known Catholics who don't have a clue that the "Immaculate Conception" is not the same thing as the "Virgin Birth." Even as someone who doesn't accept the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, I know that they are two entirely different things. Some people can be affiliated with a denomination for years and still manage to remain oblivious to what its teachings are. Maybe they sleep through worship services; I don't know.

Also, I read a book once, a book written by a man who, I believe, was at that time the President of Brigham Young University. The book was about Mormonism, but it was directed at a non-LDS audience. In his introduction to that book, he said, "...to date the efforts to explain Mormonism in a nonproseltying way have come from persons who do not share the bedrock beliefs on which the religion is based. That observation is not intended as a criticism; I am willing to assume that such efforts were undertaken in good faith. But if I want to gain an understanding of Chinese culture, I can best obtain it from someone who has not only made a thorough study of things Chinese, but even more importantly, sees the world through Chinese eyes."

I guess the bottom line is that you just have to decide for yourself who to believe. I think most people on this forum have come to trust me to be honest with them about LDS doctrine and most have figured out that I know what I'm talking about when I explain it. There will always be some who think I'm either clueless or dishonest. I don't like that, but there's nothing I can do about it. If you don't believe I am knowledgeable and honest, I would appreciate your telling me why, though.
Apparently, some may have missed this.
 
Old 12-04-2018, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,914 posts, read 29,727,261 times
Reputation: 13062
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Please elaborate. Since I will never, ever accept Baptism while alive, how could I reach exaltation? I already quoted the D&C that says not only Baptism, but temple marriage is an essential ordinance to get there. Right there in black and white. And that is not the only ordinance, but that is enough to make my point.
Short answer: Proxy baptisms are not the only ordinances we do for the dead. We also do proxy sealings (i.e. temple marriages) for the dead. But why does it matter? If you're never going to be baptized while you're alive and would reject a posthumous baptism done on your behalf after you had died, isn't whatever else might be required a moot point? It sounds to me like it's a much bigger concern to you than it ought to be.
 
Old 12-04-2018, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,192,722 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Please elaborate. Since I will never, ever accept Baptism while alive, how could I reach exaltation? I already quoted the D&C that says not only Baptism, but temple marriage is an essential ordinance to get there. Right there in black and white. And that is not the only ordinance, but that is enough to make my point.
I do not believe in the Penal Substitution theory (a blood-sacrifice), nor that of eternal punishment.
Neither, do I believe everything in the Bible. Do you think I will make it to this place called heaven?
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