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::Sigh:: It has nothing to do with whether or not it is a physical birth or a spiritual birth. It depends on the stage of "pregnancy" it is referring to. It ONLY refers to birth when it is talking about a female giving birth. When it says we are "born of God" or "born from above" it is referring to God the Father "conceiving/begetting" us (starting our spiritual pregnancy) NOT giving BIRTH to us!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
There is no such thing as a spiritual pregnancy. That's one of your personal beliefs that has nothing to do with what the Bible teaches. A person is born again immediately upon faith in Christ Jesus.
Theologians understand the concept of being born again basically in two different ways.
1.) One school of thought is that a person is born without a human spirit. He is therefore born spiritually dead. When a person believes in Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit and imparts it into the one who has placed his faith in Christ. This is also referred to as regeneration.
2.) Another school of thought is that while everyone is born with a human spirit, that spirit is 'sick' or in some kind of crippled state and in need of healing. That happens at the moment of faith in Christ.
Regardless of which school of thought is held, being born again takes place at the moment of faith in Christ. It has nothing to do with dying physically and then being reborn as a spirit. That's your belief. Not the belief of theologians, and not the teaching of the Bible which refers to being born again as having happened while a person is still alive.
Paul stated in his letter to the Ephesians that they once had been dead but have been made alive and raised up with Christ in the heavenlies (Ephesians 2:1-9). That is being born again without even using the word gennao. Being saved by grace through faith and no longer dead (spiritually dead), but made alive and raised up with Christ in the heavenlies in a positional sense while still physically alive on this earth.
Your theologians understand nothing. We are NOT born again in this physical body, we are conceived by God while in this physical womb and we are living in a "spiritual pregnancy" developing our infant spirit in love of God and each other until our death and rebirth as Spirit. The born-again Jesus talked about is what you call the resurrection, but we have to die to be born again.
1st Cor 15:35-36
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
Your theologians understand nothing. We are NOT born again in this physical body, we are conceived by God while in this physical womb and we are living in a "spiritual pregnancy" developing our infant spirit in love of God and each other until our death and rebirth as Spirit. The born-again Jesus talked about is what you call the resurrection, but we have to die to be born again.
1st Cor 15:35-36
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
The lack of understanding is yours. And you've been shown from Ephesians 2 that Paul stated that those to whom he wrote had once been dead, which obviously refers to spiritual death since they were physically, alive, but were made alive (born again).
You are conflating being born again with being resurrected. They are two different things. The believer has been born again spiritually as Paul stated (without using the word 'gennao').
Proverbs 17:15
The one who acquits the guilty and the one who condemns the innocent; both of them are an abomination to the LORD.
Exodus 23:7
Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest (righteous) person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty.
How do you explain God's declaration that He "will not leave the guilty unpunished?"
Now, what about humility and repentance?
Isaiah 1:16-20
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, rescue the oppressed, defend the orphan, plead for the widow.
Come now, let us argue it out, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be like snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.
If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured by the sword; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
Punishing the innocent, so that the guilty can go free is an absurdity beyond ridiculous.
All scriptural, though I'm not quite sure where you're going with this list of passages.
All scriptural, though I'm not quite sure where you're going with this list of passages.
In other words, the death of Christ Jesus is not predicated on a Penal Substitution theory.
Punishing the innocent so that the guilty can go free is an absurdity beyond ridiculous.
In other words, the death of Christ Jesus is not predicated on a Penal Substitution theory.
Punishing the innocent so that the guilty can go free is an absurdity beyond ridiculous.
Amen. But substituting a perfect achievement for our imperfections is NOT. Jesus achieving the perfection that none of us were capable of DOES relieve us of the burden so our imperfections are no longer deadly to our Spirits. We still have to reap whatever our imperfections have sown that we have NOT repented of. God will refine out the dross.
In other words, the death of Christ Jesus is not predicated on a Penal Substitution theory.
Punishing the innocent so that the guilty can go free is an absurdity beyond ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Amen. But substituting a perfect achievement for our imperfections is NOT. Jesus achieving the perfection that none of us were capable of DOES relieve us of the burden so our imperfections are no longer deadly to our Spirits. We still have to reap whatever our imperfections have sown that we have NOT repented of. God will refine out the dross.
He knew what mankind would do to him, but he used that to illustrate what love, mercy and grace is at a deeper level. It does not seek its own glory - like some of the posters' on this forum: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
He didn't have to die. He said he was one with God and that sent the nest of the brood of vipers (The religious heirachy) into a frenzy, they used Rome to have him crucified.
The Judeans were saying to him, “It is not for excellent works that we are stoning you, but because you blaspheme, and as you are a man, you make yourself God.”
And they again sought to seize him, and he escaped from their hands.
When Peter said that Jesus did not need to die, Jesus called him Satan.
Loved the world of mankind so much to the point of God sending Jesus to Earth for us.
Jesus' main teaching theme was about the 'good news of God's kingdom government' as per Luke 4:43
This I find is why Jesus instructed his followers to tell the world about God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44.
Tell all nations that God's kingdom in the hands of Christ Jesus for a thousand years is the solutions to man's problems.
- Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
Through Jesus, as King of God's kingdom, will bring an end to ' enemy death ' as per 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.
Earth's problems will be ' former ' problems passed away - Revelation 21:4-5.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the benefits of Rev. 22:2 to Earth when mankind on Earth will see the return of the Genesis "Tree of Life " on Earth for the 'healing' of earth's nations.
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed, blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations as described in the 35th chapter of Isaiah.
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