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When Paul in Ephesians 2:1said to his readers that they had been dead in their trespasses and sins, they were very much physically alive, but they had been dead in another sense. They had been spiritually dead which is a state of being spiritually separated from God even while physically alive.
even after having already been in the lake of fire for 1000 years will continue to be tormented forever and ever. To be tormented one must be in a state of existence.
yes I see what you are saying I see them do this alot. where they apply spiritually- eternally dead with a death that ends the physical.
what we all have to remember as you brought up here is what you show . that there is a death in the spirit that did leave humanity quite WHAT YOU CALL EXSISTANCE I WILL CALL " aware" .. and to God what we call awareness isn't not LIFE.. It isn't what he supplied for humanity to live as.
because they surely did die that day at some level and it was just a matter of time before that body follows their spirits path into "the death" they were already in . AND NO ONE CAN PROVE WHAT IT TAKES FOR AWRENESS TO END... NDE SEEM TO PROVE THERE IS NO END TO EVERY LEVEL OF AWARENESS .
what men think of as alive is quite dead also.. . but Adam and Eve continued to be quite aware and also very fearful as the clear sign of awareness that is spiritually not alive.. or there would be no fear of ever ending...
now men call awareness of a brain wave the only kind of "life" when God calls this kind of awareness but lack of his life.. as Death! But the body hasn't finished rotting yet.
and I am sure scripture is quite clear that God is quite sure that there is a kind of awareness that is still called " in death" BY God's definition ..
so arguing these things with anyone is really quite circular, maybe because so few understand God's definitions of life and death..they only rely on their own definitions. and I am very sure we can't rely on or own understandings and points of veiw.. espcially as it concerns "life" and "death" because we are not using the same page dictionary that Father God is.
as God says they died and some parts of their awareness died but not all parts... but he still calls it death....... AS WE LIKE GOD MIGHT BE THREE PART BEINGS ( AS WE ARE ALSO IN HIS IMAGE AND TYPE) AND WHEN THE BODIES AWARENESS DIES AND THEIR SPIRIT NEVER LIVED ( BOTH THOSE AWARENESSES BEING FULL DEAD) ..... IS THERE YET A/OUR THIRD PART AND IT HAS AND IS FULL OF AWARENESS AND WHAT IS BEING PROVED by NDE's ?
SO HOW MANY TIMES MUST GOD SAY "DEATH" FOR ALL OUR THREE parts to be completely unaware?
this is the reason I question if there is even annihilation of all the parts God gave men...
we can only call the extent of these gifts as "the human awareness" but God still called it death.. so even when Powers of DEATH is thrown into the lake .. that may mean some forms of human awareness that might not ever die is in that ..
so not the
(everyone is saved or God is a big meany group) can't answer these questions about our God given gift of awareness / anawareness that God even calls "death" yet can feel people enter a room.. knows when some will call you.. Knows when a child is hurt...... and so neither can explain the full gifts of our humanity..
I can only pray and suspect that God in his mercy will also End all forms and sorts of " a Human's awarenesses" at it's maybe even many many levels of the heart and soul . That is if their judgment will be annihilation.
and maybe these levels of human awareness is why there is even "a judgment" AT ALL .... as to what PARTS OF THEIR AWARENESS is EVEN ended in them and what is not . OH...EEK . which is really kind of sad..
THERE IS MANY QUESTIONS HIDING around THERE someplaces AND I CAN'T ANSWER THEM and neither can they .
I believe it applies to both, individuals and nationally in a way that relates to ALL humanity.
I do too, but each need to be treated separately..... where you get eternal torment in a lake of fire for unbelievers is when you mix everything together flesh, spirit, individual and national
The idea that this relates to all individuals that have died is wrong..... this passage is about the prophecies related to the gathering of Israel which is scattered throughout the nations, and the judgement of the nations for their treatment of Israel
Jesus came in his fathers name to fulfill the law and prophets, not to set up His own kingdom, Israel is in those nations, and the nations will progressively be judged on their works
Protestant Christianity seem to see everything in terms “heaven†and “hell†and that the law and prophets no longer apply so that theology is inserted into the scriptures. But the law and prophets do apply but they need to be understood for what they are because a) the scribes, prophets, priests have mis-handled them, and b) they are written in allegoric, symbolic, metaphoric language
The weeds started taking over 2000 years ago ..... edit:- the weeds started from the beginning as the tree of knowledge was from the beginning
The "tares"/weeds, the "many" of Matthew 7:13), have a limited life span. They will flourish until the "harvest"/"end of the age", when they will be the "first" to be gathered out and burned up, before the "wheat" is gathered "into my barn" (Matthew 13:30).
As for the nations, they will be judged apparently for previous bad behavior (Joel 3:2-3), and the future bad behavior of coming against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-4) & (Joel 3),whereas they will be gathered to the valley of judgment (Joel 3:2 & 12) & (Revelation 16:13-16).
Joel 3:1“For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2I will gather all the nations
And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat.
Then I will enter into judgment with them there
On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
And they have divided up My land. 3“They have also cast lots for My people,
Traded a boy for a harlot
And sold a girl for wine that they may drink.
All the dead will be resurrected, post millennium, but to be judged by their deeds, and those not found in the book of life, to be "thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:11-15). As for the punishment of Matthew 25:45, the brief reprieve from death will be apparently a short stint before the white throne judgment seat, before entering into a second death. (Revelation 20:15)
Once you die, you'll be resurrected only to be put to death, again? Or, to be eternally tormented.
I do too, but each need to be treated separately..... where you get eternal torment in a lake of fire for unbelievers is when you mix everything together flesh, spirit, individual and national
You are adding words by way of using the lenses of the babel of the false prophet Paul. There is no "eternal torment" for anyone other than those with "eternal life", which would be the demon spirits of the "false prophet" and the "beast", and the "devil". There is no term "unbelievers" used in Revelation 20:15. It uses the terms "anyone not found written in the book of life", which by the way, was written from the "foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8) which would be the "elect" of Matthew 24:22. Anyone who is not written in the "book of life" will "worship the beast" and the "dragon". That would be the "many" (Matthew 7:13) who follow the "false prophets" (Matthew 7:15), or in the words of Revelation 13:14, "those who dwell on the earth". You might want to be careful how you judge others, as the "unbelievers" , and non doers, of the testimony of Yeshua, may well be you. (Matthew 7:24-27) Following the false prophet Paul, is like moving north to follow the lemmings over the cliff. Be careful what you nail to a cross.
Once you die, you'll be resurrected only to be put to death, again? Or, to be eternally tormented.
Do you people realize how sadistic you are?
Apparently, there is no "eternally tormented" for those who experience a second death, and do not already have "eternal life". It is like you die, and then are raised after the millennium, and realize how wrong you were, and can't bare the thought of thinking about what you have done with your life. Well, don't worry, you get to go back to being dead, after reviewing your deeds. (Revelation 20:11-15)
Are you judging me, or are you judging God. Does the pot call the potter black?
New American Standard Bible Isaiah 45:9
"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?
Apparently, there is no "eternally tormented" for those who experience a second death, and do not already have "eternal life". It is like you die, and then are raised after the millennium, and realize how wrong you were, and can't bare the thought of thinking about what you have done with your life. Well, don't worry, you get to go back to being dead, after reviewing your deeds. (Revelation 20:11-15)
Are you judging me, or are you judging God. Does the pot call the potter black?
New American Standard Bible Isaiah 45:9
"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?
I believe the religious mindset is corrupted and guided by fear; not love.
Good grief Pillar: you are in more dire straights than was originally thought!
I think pillar is trapped by looking at the literal words thinking they relate to literal things happening to literal individuals.
Jesus says my words are spirit and life, I come in my fathers name to fulfill the law and prophets, but just like there were false prophets in the Old there are in the New.
I believe the religious mindset is corrupted and guided by fear; not love.
It certainly can be, but that is part of the dual nature that all humans have
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