Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't know where you are at...I know some have their attention on words in the Bible ...but
some here will relate to me that this life
is a second by second event to 'see' Reality.
I must...I am called ...to see The Divine Presence in every single event...the car in front of me,
my dog...is not my dog...but a manifestation in this dimension of God Himself.
We have the ability and the need to see Reality...nothing is what it seems...it only appears to look like a tree, a wall, a chair and a person...but what it is 'really'...Him.
I don't know where you are at...I know some have their attention on words in the Bible ...but
some here will relate to me that this life
is a second by second event to 'see' Reality.
I must...I am called ...to see The Divine Presence in every single event...the car in front of me,
my dog...is not my dog...but a manifestation in this dimension of God Himself.
We have the ability and the need to see Reality...nothing is what it seems...it only appears to look like a tree, a wall, a chair and a person...but what it is 'really'...Him.
You? You working to realize a higher awareness?
It certainly is one way of looking at things.
If you were a "Zen Buddhist" you may see "Yin And Yang", the "Positive and Negative". You might notice the spaces in between the tree branches (negative space) as opposed to the solid mass of the tree trunk and branches (positive space).
The tree/car/dog cannot exist without the negative space there to occupy. Conversely, endless space with no mass or objects existing in it may have no purpose or meaning. The two rely on and exist for one another and together, yet are opposite in their very essence.
I don't know where you are at...I know some have their attention on words in the Bible ...but
some here will relate to me that this life
is a second by second event to 'see' Reality.
I must...I am called ...to see The Divine Presence in every single event...the car in front of me,
my dog...is not my dog...but a manifestation in this dimension of God Himself.
We have the ability and the need to see Reality...nothing is what it seems...it only appears to look like a tree, a wall, a chair and a person...but what it is 'really'...Him.
You? You working to realize a higher awareness?
You seem to be talking about pantheism - the belief that God is everything and everything is God . That's not a Biblical teaching and not logical. God has always existed, but creation had a beginning. If what God has created is itself God then God created a part of Himself. If creation is God then God has changed. But God says that He doesn't change.
Malachi 3:6 "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Pantheism denies the immutability - the changelessness of God. While God interacts with His creation, He is not that which He created.
Psalm 102:25-27 distinguishes between the changelessness of God and the fact that the heavens and earth that He created will pass away.
Psalm 102:25 "Of old You founded the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 26] "Even they will perish, but You endure; And all of them will wear out like a garment; Like clothing You will change them and they will be changed. 27] "But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end.
Therefore, pantheism is contrary to the Biblical revelation of the unchanging nature and essence of God.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-17-2019 at 08:58 PM..
If you were a "Zen Buddhist" you may see "Yin And Yang", the "Positive and Negative". You might notice the spaces in between the tree branches (negative space) as opposed to the solid mass of the tree trunk and branches (positive space).
The tree/car/dog cannot exist without the negative space there to occupy. Conversely, endless space with no mass or objects existing in it may have no purpose or meaning. The two rely on and exist for one another and together, yet are opposite in their very essence.
Good one, always liked Zen...reminds me of looking at things differently, as in when we look at those 3D prints and suddenly see the elephant hidden in it all along.
The empty space, I know right? If the nucleus of an atom was a basketball the electron would be 20 miles away...
I think I remembered that correctly.
God is amazing! And nothing is what it appears to be. Not water, not death...one of the
many things Jesus tried to show us before we had the em microscope...along with the power of belief and faith...
and that nothing is impossible to God.
Added:
And when I say something 'is Him'..., I probably should say part of Him, within Him...exists because of Him...a ray is not the Sun itself...and yet, what is a ray without the Sun, what is the Sun without it's rays, ha!
Last edited by Miss Hepburn; 01-18-2019 at 02:09 AM..
You seem to be talking about pantheism - the belief that God is everything and everything is God . That's not a Biblical teaching and not logical. God has always existed, but creation had a beginning. If what God has created is itself God then God created a part of Himself. If creation is God then God has changed. But God says that He doesn't change.
Malachi 3:6 "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Pantheism denies the immutability - the changelessness of God. While God interacts with His creation, He is not that which He created.
Psalm 102:25-27 distinguishes between the changelessness of God and the fact that the heavens and earth that He created will pass away.
Psalm 102:25 "Of old You founded the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 26] "Even they will perish, but You endure; And all of them will wear out like a garment; Like clothing You will change them and they will be changed. 27] "But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end.
Therefore, pantheism is contrary to the Biblical revelation of the unchanging nature and essence of God.
I love your devout, unwavering spirit Mike. I admire it. ...and in the end what we believe won't matter, because He is far above what we perceive in the flesh realm.
Mike Nevins refers to the All in All nature of the Father as spiritual pantheism, and All in All is a biblical idea, all be it a small element in a large (and confused) sea of narrative. The spiritual aspect of spiritual pantheism is the focus on our spiritual essence - what we are - whereas basic pantheism has a focus on the material, and one can see this distinction in the Bible verses you quoted - there's a disjoint between perceiving God as someone different or outside of the material, which cannot be true, since the Father is omnipresent. Therefore, everything we perceive as having a physical manifestation is a small part of him, one and the same, just a small part of the whole.
The one bible narrative concept that has gotten out of hand is that of creation, that there had to be a beginning, since it becomes applied to other things (of spiritual essence) than just the material in the material realm. Science claims to show there was a material beginning even if no-one can agree about what that was. Matter is vibration / energy slowed down, which satisfies and is the meaning of Einstein's E equals mc squared theory. Everyone thinks of it the other way round though, because of a materialistic outlook, that matter can be turned into energy - but it just returns to its original state. ...this is why the concept of zero point energy
Is true, but that's another subject.
So we have to decide about the spiritual characteristics of those things that are manifested in the material realm, and the answer is that they have always been. ....I know it is a hard one to swallow, but it is the only conclusion. One has always been. As Jerwade implies, everything is now, and there was no beginning, in the spiritual realm.
And there comes a point where the bible text cannot inform us about these truths - the subject is too vast that it never was understood, and has not been understood by those who limit themselves to the biblical text. I learned this from NDE testimonials - they do not concur with Christian doctrine and dogma, so I am therefore constantly reviewing my theology, and testing it against, not whether I'm right and others are wrong, but whether my heart attitude is aligned with love and an attitude of service to others.
See reality is the work of the Creator , were reality or rationalization is questioned and Creator is rejected is the work of the adversary spirit not of God the Creator
I love your devout, unwavering spirit Mike. I admire it. ...and in the end what we believe won't matter, because He is far above what we perceive in the flesh realm.
Mike Nevins refers to the All in All nature of the Father as spiritual pantheism, and All in All is a biblical idea, all be it a small element in a large (and confused) sea of narrative. The spiritual aspect of spiritual pantheism is the focus on our spiritual essence - what we are - whereas basic pantheism has a focus on the material, and one can see this distinction in the Bible verses you quoted - there's a disjoint between perceiving God as someone different or outside of the material, which cannot be true, since the Father is omnipresent. Therefore, everything we perceive as having a physical manifestation is a small part of him, one and the same, just a small part of the whole.
The one bible narrative concept that has gotten out of hand is that of creation, that there had to be a beginning, since it becomes applied to other things (of spiritual essence) than just the material in the material realm. Science claims to show there was a material beginning even if no-one can agree about what that was. Matter is vibration / energy slowed down, which satisfies and is the meaning of Einstein's E equals mc squared theory. Everyone thinks of it the other way round though, because of a materialistic outlook, that matter can be turned into energy - but it just returns to its original state. ...this is why the concept of zero point energy
Is true, but that's another subject.
So we have to decide about the spiritual characteristics of those things that are manifested in the material realm, and the answer is that they have always been. ....I know it is a hard one to swallow, but it is the only conclusion. One has always been. As Jerwade implies, everything is now, and there was no beginning, in the spiritual realm.
And there comes a point where the bible text cannot inform us about these truths - the subject is too vast that it never was understood, and has not been understood by those who limit themselves to the biblical text. I learned this from NDE testimonials - they do not concur with Christian doctrine and dogma, so I am therefore constantly reviewing my theology, and testing it against, not whether I'm right and others are wrong, but whether my heart attitude is aligned with love and an attitude of service to others.
So, yea, I agree with Miss Hepburn's view.
I do as well, but I disagree with Mike's conclusion that such a view is pantheism. I think, more accurately, it is panENtheism.
I love your devout, unwavering spirit Mike. I admire it. ...and in the end what we believe won't matter, because He is far above what we perceive in the flesh realm.
Mike Nevins refers to the All in All nature of the Father as spiritual pantheism, and All in All is a biblical idea, all be it a small element in a large (and confused) sea of narrative. The spiritual aspect of spiritual pantheism is the focus on our spiritual essence - what we are - whereas basic pantheism has a focus on the material, and one can see this distinction in the Bible verses you quoted - there's a disjoint between perceiving God as someone different or outside of the material, which cannot be true, since the Father is omnipresent. Therefore, everything we perceive as having a physical manifestation is a small part of him, one and the same, just a small part of the whole.
The one bible narrative concept that has gotten out of hand is that of creation, that there had to be a beginning, since it becomes applied to other things (of spiritual essence) than just the material in the material realm. Science claims to show there was a material beginning even if no-one can agree about what that was. Matter is vibration / energy slowed down, which satisfies and is the meaning of Einstein's E equals mc squared theory. Everyone thinks of it the other way round though, because of a materialistic outlook, that matter can be turned into energy - but it just returns to its original state. ...this is why the concept of zero point energy
Is true, but that's another subject.
So we have to decide about the spiritual characteristics of those things that are manifested in the material realm, and the answer is that they have always been. ....I know it is a hard one to swallow, but it is the only conclusion. One has always been. As Jerwade implies, everything is now, and there was no beginning, in the spiritual realm.
And there comes a point where the bible text cannot inform us about these truths - the subject is too vast that it never was understood, and has not been understood by those who limit themselves to the biblical text. I learned this from NDE testimonials - they do not concur with Christian doctrine and dogma, so I am therefore constantly reviewing my theology, and testing it against, not whether I'm right and others are wrong, but whether my heart attitude is aligned with love and an attitude of service to others.
So, yea, I agree with Miss Hepburn's view.
If God created the Universe as the Bible claims, then it logically follows that creation had a beginning. And the Universe did have a beginning. Whatever resulted in what is known as the big bang was not itself the Universe. That something has had to always have existed is true because nothing can come into existence from a state of absolute nothingless. Therefore, energy in some form has had to always have existed. But the Universe in which we live had a beginning apart from the issue of whether there is a God to have created it, or whether the universe is the result of a random fluctuation in an infinite sea of quantum foam.
God is both immanent and transcendent which means that while God interacts with His creation He exists outside and beyond what He created. God is greater than that which He created.
What Colossians 3:11 actually says is that Christ is all and in all and it refers to the believer's new identity in Christ and that in Christ there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile and the rest of what follows in that verse. It has nothing at all to do with the concept of pantheism.
Col. 3:10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- 11] a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
If you try to go beyond what God has revealed about Himself and about creation in the Bible then you are engaging in philosophical speculation. And nothing that God has revealed about Himself in the Bible by way of the Biblical writers allows for the concept of pantheism.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
