Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That makes sense except for I thought 2p didn't have a task master. I posit he does fear a man, himself.
Yeah it still counts as fearing man 2p. When I was a kid in my sect I was taught to "fear displeasing God." So, so many ways I was told I could disappoint Him and He would kill me. They taught me to judge myself and told me that's how God judges. Anyone else think God will destroy you for not being a JW? Just them then, huh. I was a slave to a group disguised as "servant of God" so I read the Bible as such. The next time I read the Bible was set free by the message of Grace. No fear in love 2p, maybe give it a try. If Grace can be extended to a slave trader than I'm sure you have a pretty good shot at it too. A freaking slave trader wrote this 2p:
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear And Grace, my fears relieved How precious did that grace appear The hour I first believed
Apparently, as with your teacher and leader Paul, you are a slave to sin (Romans 7:19-20), and think by believing him, and his false gospel of grace, you "surely shall not die" (Genesis 3:4 & 1 Cor 15:52-53), yet "everyone shall die" (Jeremiah 31:30) "for their own iniquity". As for your JWs, they believe in the false prophet Paul as well, and they have need to fear, both God, man, and the angels (Matthew 13:39).
1 Corinthians 15:52-58 [SIZE=2]52[/SIZE]in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. [SIZE=2]53[/SIZE]For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
That makes sense except for I thought 2p didn't have a task master. I posit he does fear a man, himself.
...
Yeah, that’s a terrible place to be. I know, I’ve been there. I think what those who rail against grace and God’s love often fail to recognize is that grace and love allows us to focus on God in a way that transforms us. Whereas focusing on trying to overcome our “sin” just reinforces its hold on us.
Yeah, that’s a terrible place to be. I know, I’ve been there. I think what those who rail against grace and God’s love often fail to recognize is that grace and love allows us to focus on God in a way that transforms us. Whereas focusing on trying to overcome our “sin” just reinforces its hold on us.
That's what got me too. Thinking I wasn't worthy or there was something so terribly wrong with me. I stared that accuser down believing that no matter how bad it was Grace would cover me.
Apparently, as with your teacher and leader Paul, you are a slave to sin (Romans 7:19-20), and think by believing him, and his false gospel of grace, you "surely shall not die" (Genesis 3:4 & 1 Cor 15:52-53), yet "everyone shall die" (Jeremiah 31:30) "for their own iniquity". As for your JWs, they believe in the false prophet Paul as well, and they have need to fear, both God, man, and the angels (Matthew 13:39).
1 Corinthians 15:52-58 [SIZE=2]52[/SIZE]in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. [SIZE=2]53[/SIZE]For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
I'm free (most of the time). That's good enough for me. Eternal life, twinkling, etc....no interest in it. I've accepted my time is short.
That's what got me too. Thinking I wasn't worthy or there was something so terribly wrong with me. I stared that accuser down believing that no matter how bad it was Grace would cover me.
That's what got me too. Thinking I wasn't worthy or there was something so terribly wrong with me. I stared that accuser down believing that no matter how bad it was Grace would cover me.
"Grace would cover me" from what? From death? From the wrath of God? From the consequences of sin? And what is the consequence of sin? Was Paul wrong about you not having to die? Is Paul dead? What would cover your "accuser", who was also a believer in "grace"?
I'm free (most of the time). That's good enough for me. Eternal life, twinkling, etc....no interest in it. I've accepted my time is short.
The problem is not "death", for "everyone will die" (Jeremiah 31:30). The problem is your time during the "great tribulation". Will you "seek death" and have "death flee from you" (Revelation 9:6). Will you seek a rock to hide under (Revelation 6:15-17)?
Revelation 6:14-17 King James Version (KJV)
[SIZE=2]14 [/SIZE]And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[SIZE=2]15 [/SIZE]And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[SIZE=2]16 [/SIZE]And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [SIZE=2]17 [/SIZE]For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
"Grace would cover me" from what? From death? From the wrath of God? From the consequences of sin? And what is the consequence of sin? Was Paul wrong about you not having to die? Is Paul dead? What would cover your "accuser", who was also a believer in "grace"?
I felt like I was hiding some deep dark secret from myself. Like weird as in I was an axe murderer or something and had blocked it out. I was too afraid to open the door to see what that secret was. When I read the Bible without the aid of the Watchtower I saw "open that door, see what's there, I'll cover you." He already knew about me what I was too afraid to face and He loved me. It made no difference.
I had become the accuser. I wasn't the original accuser but their words played in my head. I saw no wrath so I don't know what your talking about. I guess that might fall under slave/free. Slaves fear wrath, the free do not. I don't know what happens after our bodies stop functioning and decay. It will be what it will be and there's nothing I can do to change it. That is beyond my pay grade.
The problem is not "death", for "everyone will die" (Jeremiah 31:30). The problem is your time during the "great tribulation". Will you "seek death" and have "death flee from you" (Revelation 9:6). Will you seek a rock to hide under (Revelation 6:15-17)?
Revelation 6:14-17 King James Version (KJV)
[SIZE=2]14 [/SIZE]And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[SIZE=2]15 [/SIZE]And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[SIZE=2]16 [/SIZE]And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [SIZE=2]17 [/SIZE]For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Don't you see that, in a way, you are fearing death. I'm not saying that's a sin or short coming. That's normal and very understandable.
I felt like I was hiding some deep dark secret from myself. Like weird as in I was an axe murderer or something and had blocked it out. I was too afraid to open the door to see what that secret was. When I read the Bible without the aid of the Watchtower I saw "open that door, see what's there, I'll cover you." He already knew about me what I was too afraid to face and He loved me. It made no difference.
That was a vital first step for me, too. And then, understanding that God/Christ dwells in each of us and so the transformative power of God is always present (never withdrawn because I didn't "measure up") within me and accessible to me was another step. (For an atheist, they would, I think, recognize that power as simply something inherently within all people, while obviously not calling it God.)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
