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Sexual immorality seems to shock some people more than does other kinds of sin. But there are far worse sins such as arrogance, pride, jealousy, malice, revenge motivation, murder, unjustified anger, etc. I don't recall anyone ever starting a thread about those things. It's always sexual immorality.
If you've accepted Jesus as Savior, your sins, no matter what they are, won't keep you out of heaven. The way you live can result in loss of eternal rewards at the judgment seat of Christ and keep you from 'inheriting the kingdom of heaven,' but it won't keep you out of the kingdom of heaven.
I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree, but I am curious as to what you see the difference as being between inheriting the kingdom of heaven and being permitted to enter the kingdom of heaven.
I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree, but I am curious as to what you see the difference as being between inheriting the kingdom of heaven and being permitted to enter the kingdom of heaven.
While all believers in Christ Jesus are eternally saved and will be in the kingdom of heaven, not all believers will have equal standing in the kingdom in terms of rulership responsibilities, privileges, and rewards. This goes to the rewards which are given out at the judgment seat of Christ, spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15. As well, in the parable of the minas in Luke 19:12-26 Jesus indicated that some would rule over ten cities, others over five cites, and some would rule over none. Many believers will be in the kingdom but have nothing or little to show in terms of their spiritual life during their life on this earth.
Inheriting the kingdom then has to do with experiencing the fullness, the richness, of the kingdom as opposed to simply being in the kingdom.
If a single sin is enough to force you to swim laps in the fiery lake for all eternity, I would think the bible would be a lot more clear about things.
That said, women wearing pants is an abomination, so is wearing fabrics made of 2 or more materials. Plenty of women in church wearing pants these days, along with men and women wearing multi-material clothes. How is there so much time for Christians to be bent out of shape about gay people when they refuse to address living in sin amongst their own congregation?
Basically, my 30+ years in church taught me that people in church will put more emphasis on how bad sins are that they are not committing while blowing off their own behavior as not sinful (its old testament, doesn't count now, etc.) or "the lord is working on me still." Maybe remove the log from your eye before going off on gay people? Nah, thats too much to ask, which is why I quit going to church.
The point that we've been making this whole time is that it IS enough. (Rom 6:23).
The good news is that if we have Jesus we are not in condemnation. (Rom 8:1).
I'm sorry that your church experience tended to emphasize some over others. I'm sorry if some told you that it's ok to simply engage in some but not others.
So, a gay Christian is not in condemnation? Or, are they an exception to that statement?
Define that, please. What IS a "gay Christian"? Is it like the alcoholic Christian that deals with a temptation to sin daily, but he takes up his cross and denies himself out of love for Christ, even though he does occasionally fail? Is that like the straight Christian that REALLY likes the opposite sex, but denies himself/herself out of love for God, even though they fail occasionally?
Or is it the person that says that they simply don't believe the Bible, and that they will redefine what God has said and they insist that God must be happy with their sin?
So we have super long threads trying to justify this as normal, the will of God or accept me or your a bigot. If you disagree with the lifestyle its not your opinion, its now hate speech, but if the LGBTQ and backers call you names for not agreeing, its not consider hate speech.
Lets compare homosexuality, with adultery and incest, which are other forms of Sexual immorality listed by God.
For Adultery, I dont hear any one say, God made me this way to want multiple women/men, so Im going to cheat on my spouse and you better not say its wrong or you're a bigot. Actually you're an adulterphobe for not supporting my lifestyle of adultery and I should be able to openly be in adultery in the church too, dont judge.
LGBTQ says whats wrong with 2 committed adults doing what they want behind closed doors.
How about incest. Whats wrong with 2 loving and committed family members having sex with each other behind closed doors. God made them that way, despite where it says in scriptures that is a 100% no no, just like he did on homosexuality. If you say anything against people that commit incest and are open about it in the church too, yore a bigot or incestaphobic.
All 3 scenarios are listed as the sin of Sexual immorality by God and must be repented of. Jesus didnt speak on incest and bestiality, but that doesnt make them okay either. He didnt have to speak on homosexuality, because they all knew it was a abomination to God to live like that, it was wrong, goes against nature and the will of God and considered sexual immorality, so no need for Jesus to go in detail about something that is obvious to them like STOP at a stop sign is obvious to us in our current times.
Whole issue summed up right here.
Is Gay marriage or LGBTQ lifestyle backed by scriptures? NO
Is Gay marriage or LGBTQ lifestyle a sin according to scriptures? YES
Does God recognize marriage between anything other than a man and woman? NO
Is sex outside of marriage a sin according to scriptures? YES
Is homosexual sex outside of marriage sexual immorality according to scriptures ? YES
Is heterosexual sex outside of marriage sexual immorality according to scriptures ? YES
Does the bible say sexual immorality is a sin in the OT and NT? YES
Does the bible say people who practice sexual immorality will not go to heaven? YES
Its that simple, God doesnt hate a homosexual/lesbian, even though he calls their lifestyle an abomination, he still loves them. What he hates is the sin of sexual immorality and it must be repented of and it applies to gay and straight people. Since God sees sex outside of marriage as a sin and will never recognize a gay marriage, homosexuality will always be sexual immorality which is a SIN, just like adultery and fornication.
IN THE BEGINNING
Genesis 1:27
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Genesis 2:24
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
----------
JESUS CONFIRMS WHAT MARRIAGE IS
Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said,‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them,“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[d] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
So Jesus taught from the Torah and it is pretty clear and straight forward that marriage is between a man and a woman only, so Gay marriage and homosexuality will never be okay in the eyes of God.
SEXUAL IMMORALITY IS A SIN AND A SIN AGAINST YOUR OWN BODY
1 Corinthians 6:18
18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
Gay Marriage, Homosexuality, and Sexual Immorality is wrong, no matter how one tries to flip scriptures to suit them. As a true believer we are to let the bible be the standard, not man kinds corrupt traditions. In the end you give an account to Jesus, not mankind.
Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13, Rom 1:24-32, 1 Cor 6:9, Colossians 3:5-7, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, Rev 21:8
Colossians 3:5-7
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 21:8 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85
Your speaking the truth will bring great opposition from those who desire to live a willful sinful life w/o accountability. Jesus exposed sin, and it cost Him His life.
SAAN is not speaking the truth. SAAN is merely presenting scriptures that most of us already know and highlighting just one portion of a whole list of things that will keep ALL OF US from 'inheriting the kingdom of God'. SAAN makes that list, bryan85, as do you ...! Neither of you are going to inherit the kingdom of God based on Paul's list ...including himself. How does that make you feel knowing that you and SAAN are on that list and won't be going anywhere even close to God's kingdom? Does that humble you to the point where you're going to quit pointing the finger at others?
So, a gay Christian is not in condemnation? Or, are they an exception to that statement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Define that, please. What IS a "gay Christian"? Is it like the alcoholic Christian that deals with a temptation to sin daily, but he takes up his cross and denies himself out of love for Christ, even though he does occasionally fail? Is that like the straight Christian that REALLY likes the opposite sex, but denies himself/herself out of love for God, even though they fail occasionally?
Or is it the person that says that they simply don't believe the Bible, and that they will redefine what God has said and they insist that God must be happy with their sin?
Okay, so we're not quibbling over semantics I'll make this easier. I'll rephrase the question. Would a gay married couple who, like you, have accepted Jesus into their lives (i.e. they are professed Christians) not be in condemnation as per your previous post? Please keep the response simple, BFun, as I'm a simple guy.
Okay, so we're not quibbling over semantics I'll make this easier. I'll rephrase the question. Would a gay married couple who, like you, have accepted Jesus into their lives (i.e. they are professed Christians) not be in condemnation as per your previous post? Please keep the response simple, BFun, as I'm a simple guy.
You know BF is going to contort himself into knots trying not to say "gay Christians" aren't "real" Christians - while still giving the impression that's exactly what he and his god-thing think.
Matthew 25:46 These will go away into aionion (period of time) chastisement or correction, and the just or righteous into aionion (period of time) life.
Remember, this is not talking about anything eternal (aidios), however, it doesn't mean that life will end, anymore than the chastisement or correction will continue. Once the period of age-long correction has ended, these will join the others and life will continue for everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
You've been shown more than once that the word αἰώνιον has within its semantic range of meaning the idea of unending duration, as in eternal. The αἰώνιον punishment is as unending as the αἰώνιον life.
Nor is the word kolasis restricted to 'remedial' or 'corrective' punishment as shown in 2 Maccabees 4:38 where it is used in connection with the capital punishment of a murderer. There is nothing remedial about being put to death.
The death penalty hasn’t really been an effective deterrent for murder, although it may be proportional to the offense in the sense of what you sow, you also reap. However, if you want to, you can build an altar for the Greek pagan gods that you are so hard pressed to worship? But it has nothing to do with any kind of truth or that of reality for that matter. You might also want to consider that revenge or vengeance merely desires to see the wrongdoer suffer. And none of what you quoted has anything to do with the ideology of eternal punishment, as it does not exist in the Greek New Testament (and contrary to your opinion), not even Jesus used those terms in conjunction with one another. But I have no doubt that your mind has been veiled and you will remain in the darkness of your theologies, until the day of judgment.
Another important principle (tenet) that you might want to consider is that of the Protestant Reformation, which states: "scriptural translations should be derived from the original Hebrew and Aramaic texts for the Old Testament and Greek for the New Testament, rather than upon the Septuagint and Jerome's Latin Vulgate." And of the four books of the Maccabees, none are in the Hebrew Bible, although all do appear in some of the manuscripts of the Septuagint. They were considered to be Apocrypha or deuterocanonical and were not placed on the same level as other documents. In other words, it’s not really a reliable source in my humble opinion. And I have no doubt that they erred in their translation or perspective. However, you do like to draw on them in order to support your false beliefs of eternal damnation, even though they are not what you refer to as being canonized.
The Septuagint has been passionately called "Egypt's greatest gift to Western civilization?" And we can see why. Apparently, whatever suits your agenda to propagate this false teachings is fair game, but anyone with a good moral center would NEVER consider it as anything other than the wicked imagination of religious men.
While all believers in Christ Jesus are eternally saved and will be in the kingdom of heaven, not all believers will have equal standing in the kingdom in terms of rulership responsibilities, privileges, and rewards. This goes to the rewards which are given out at the judgment seat of Christ, spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15. As well, in the parable of the minas in Luke 19:12-26 Jesus indicated that some would rule over ten cities, others over five cites, and some would rule over none. Many believers will be in the kingdom but have nothing or little to show in terms of their spiritual life during their life on this earth.
Inheriting the kingdom then has to do with experiencing the fullness, the richness, of the kingdom as opposed to simply being in the kingdom.
This not a biblical precept but more of a human opinion. Belief in Jesus only does not gain you access into heaven.
A common modern theme for many is to reject parts of Scripture that doesn’t fit into their view or philosophy. Claims that Genesis is parabolic, sexual deviance is condoned, and hell is a myth is a warning sign that that they may not be whom they claim to be.
Do you know what really is interesting on this board? The plethra of lying and deceit. So much I firmly believe that they don’t even realize they are doing it. It is embedded in their Spirit.
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