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#1 - Your logic (or anyone's else logic) won't work here. Salvation comes from God through Jesus Christ. Therefore, His "logic" is what matters. Isaiah 55:8 proclaims that His ways are not our ways. Proverbs 3 says that we should not lean on our understanding.
#2 - "Your" logic says salvation should depend upon how good someone is. God (who is a spirit being) says all are guilty of judgment because of who we are spiritually related to. Salvation is dependent on relationship, not deeds. Our spiritual relationship that God sees is with Adam when we are conceived on the earth. That spiritual relationship must be transferred over to Jesus Christ in order for salvation to take place.
#3 - It is impossible to please God without faith. That means we totally trust Him even when it does not make sense. Our logic says the child is innocent, and the murderer punished. However, our logic doesn't matter. Do you know that people who were murderers turned out to be men of God in the Bible? That would be Moses, David, and Paul (indirectly). God obviously has a different criteria of who comes to faith in Him.
So for us, salvation is not about logic, or figuring out a standard of works that someone did. It's about faith and trust of God through Jesus Christ.
I am glad that there is nothing which requires me to follow the ideologies of men who remain ignorant.
Canon indicates the mass of mankind have "been constituted" sinners by no choice of their own in Adam1.
That identical mass is "constituted righteous" in the Last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ.
EVERY LAST ONE!
This doesn't make sense to me. All of mankind is constitued righteous ONLY through Jesus Christ. So a man no fault of his own can be born and follow the wrong religion, not receive word of the Gospel and God will not be accept him into heaven because he did not follow Jesus Christ even though he was righteous all his life.
The only righteousness that satisfies heaven’s court is Christ’s righteousness.
Only 9 commands are forgivable. And the Truth of the matter is nonnegotiable.
The murder worshipping fools will be rewarded.
Just for curiosity's sake, what is the unforgivable command?
What truth is not negotiable?
What murder worshipping fools are you referring to?
Do you assert those who believe that Jesus (not Isa) died on the cross and arose from the grave are fools?
There are those who play games with truth and these same people do their own share of killing in the name of their religion. Your words have a familiar ring as one of them.
Just for curiosity's sake, what is the unforgivable command?
What truth is not negotiable?
What murder worshipping fools are you referring to?
Do you assert those who believe that Jesus (not Isa) died on the cross and arose from the grave are fools?
There are those who play games with truth and these same people do their own share of killing in the name of their religion. Your words have a familiar ring as one of them.
Who are you?
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Read closely, a psalm.
Whoever is pregnant with evil
conceives trouble and gives birth to disillusionment.
15 Whoever digs a hole and scoops it out
falls into the pit they have made.
16 The trouble they cause recoils on them;
their violence comes down on their own heads.
17 I will give thanks to the Lord because of his righteousness;
I will sing the praises of the name of the Lord Most High.
Morality does matter. People's deeds will be judged.
Salvation is relational from a spiritual perspective. Salvation is a free gift... therefore it is not based on morals, but on faith. And that faith causes a person to be born into God's family. Again... God's logic, not our logic.
So this is exactly what I'm saying. You only need faith and good deeds for salvation even though you were immoral previously. You could be moral your entire life but if you have no FAITH in Jesus Christ there is no salvation.
Quote:
I understand your point. But we don't see what God sees, and we don't fully know why He does things as He does. You can choose to trust Him or not.
So really no explaination as to why millions through no fault of their own are born in the wrong country and never receive the gospel of Jesus Christ will never have a chance at salvation even though they lived righteously.
Quote:
Also - because of no fault of His own, Jesus was convicted and hung to death. From a human perspective, it does not make sense that God would do that to His Son. But the good in His death has been revealed to the world. When we get to the eternal side of life, we will see all and it will make sense. For now, it's a matter of faith and trust.
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Exactly, it does not make sense. What kind of God approves of the scapegoating, torture, and murder of one man—his son, incidentally—in compensation for the misbehavior and thought-crimes of all others? For God this is viewed as loving act but imagine if I approved that same scenario for my son. It would be considered murdereous and evil, not love.
There are no flaws in my logic. For the child I am merely giving an example. There are millions of children in this world that never receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Are you saying that every child that died on this Earth had to have had the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ? All these children have no chance of spending eternity in heaven. Let's go a step further and talk about an adult who lives his whole life morally never having sinned but did not accept Jesus Christ in his life yet that person does not spend eternity in heaven according to Christianity.
With the second example of the old dirty man, it could be any evil person man or woman that has sinned throughout life. If they simply repent and truly accept Jesus Christ as their savior they spend eternity in heaven. Your response did not answer the question in any sense. Where is the moral accountability in this life time?
Your logic is flawed in that it is based upon an unsupportable hypothetical.
It is NOT fact, neither is it truth, yet you presume it is. That is the nature of your flawed logic. For logic to be of value it must have a basis in truth.
It must begin with substance, not conjecture.
Truth is that which is consistent with what is.
Nothing you've asserted is true or even references statistical study. You might just as well assert all Martians have green skin - it is just as ludicrous.
Your questions begin with a false hypothetical - what is often called a straw man fallacy.
You begin with falsehood and end with misconception.
If you want truth, you must seek it truly.
but i don't think you want truth .... you just want an argument....
Do you know for a certainty that "millions of children in this world" have never received the gospel? If so, how did you obtain this knowledge? Did you consult your OUIJA board or perhaps read chicken bones from last night's dinner or perhaps you consulted your tarot cards? Such knowledge is beyond the reach of man today - yet you pretend to have it. How clever you are.
An adult who lives a moral life yet rejects the Lordship of Jesus Christ has chosen spiritual destruction.
Your presumption that salvation is based upon human morality is false.
Many who cry Lord Lord will never see the Kingdom of God because God never knew them. (Matthew 7:23)
The Bible states clearly that the blood of Christ must be accepted and applied by those who humbly ask for salvation.
STOP thinking in human terms.
STOP making assumptions about that which you really have no knowledge.
in this do you err......
START seeking truth.
WARNING:
Truth has a nasty habit of being found by those who truly seek it.
All who find it discover it will make unexpected demands upon them.
Most realize they cannot and will not accept these demands and subsequently invent their own 'truth'.
They follow their own truth, whatever that may be, to their own destruction.
"judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil."
- Jesus as quoted by John 3:19
It is NOT your truth that will save or judge anyone. It is THE truth that saves. Mankind judges itself unworthy of truth and therefore judges itself unto destruction.
Salvation is NOT based upon human morality either pure or dissolute. It is not based upon race or nationality or social standing. It IS based upon the blood of Christ.
Accept the life of Jesus as your own or ultimately lose both body and spirit at the moment of physical death.
It is your choice. I suggest you choose wisely.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Last edited by Choir Loft; 02-28-2019 at 08:05 AM..
Whoever is pregnant with evil
conceives trouble and gives birth to disillusionment.
15 Whoever digs a hole and scoops it out
falls into the pit they have made.
16 The trouble they cause recoils on them;
their violence comes down on their own heads.
17 I will give thanks to the Lord because of his righteousness;
I will sing the praises of the name of the Lord Most High.
The portion you have chosen to share comes from Psalm 7.
In that psalm David, the composer, is bemoaning his persecution by King Saul. The operative word in psalm 7 is persecution.
In plain language what are you trying to say? Who do you imagine is persecuting you?
In plain language what do you represent?
AGAIN:
What is the unforgivable command?
What truth is not negotiable?
What murder worshipping fools are you referring to?
Do you assert those who believe that Jesus (not Isa) died on the cross and arose from the grave are fools?
Who is persecuting you? A person or a group of people? If a person what is his/her name. If a group, then who are they?
Do you know or do you just have a general feeling that everybody is against you?
Write clearly that readers may understand who you really are.
I believe I know, but I'd just like to see you admit it.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Last edited by Choir Loft; 02-28-2019 at 07:48 AM..
This doesn't make sense to me. All of mankind is constitued righteous ONLY through Jesus Christ.
Dear Diesel: It may not make sense to you, but the identical mass made sinners in Adam1 are the mass made righteous in the Last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ!
Every last one!
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