Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-06-2008, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
3,570 posts, read 8,695,151 times
Reputation: 6041

Advertisements

If I remember correctly Mormon's have used the verse below to validate their faith.

just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. (John 10:15-17, NIV).

I had a friend a long time ago talk to me about her beliefs and Mormonism. She referenced this verse, as did yet another Mormon friend many years later. I read it today and realized that the sheep from the other pen that Jesus is referencing is the Gentiles. The sheep he was talking to were the Jews. And the other sheep were the Gentiles...culturally gentiles were considered worse than dogs. Just an interesting thought I wanted to pass along.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-06-2008, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Missouri
250 posts, read 501,833 times
Reputation: 53
This is a common belief so you are not alone. Here is what Jesus said to the people in ancient America when he visited them as recorded in the Book of Mormon:

17 That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

18 And now, because of stiffneckedness and unbelief they understood not my word; therefore I was commanded to say no more of the Father concerning this thing unto them.

19 But, verily, I say unto you that the Father hath commanded me, and I tell it unto you, that ye were separated from among them because of their iniquity; therefore it is because of their iniquity that they know not of you.

20 And verily, I say unto you again that the other tribes hath the Father separated from them; and it is because of their iniquity that they know not of them.

21 And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


22 And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching.

23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice—that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.

24 But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me.

(3 Nephi 15:17-24, emphasis added))
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2008, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,568,206 times
Reputation: 262
In support of Hoosier....

I personally dont think Jesus would have allowed so much confusion if it were true (mormons being the other sheep). The bible states "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace" (Psalms, I think).

Just from a debateable perspective..Galatians 1:8-9 would cause me confusion if I were to 'buy into' that argument. God is of Peace, therefore it cannot be true.

We both cant be right, Mormons, Fundamentalists. they are is opposition.

***Please this is not meant to 'mormon' bash, thats getting old.....
just a point.

If they are the other sheep...explain Gal 1:8-9. too me its 1+1=3. doesnt make sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2008, 09:30 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 5,438,153 times
Reputation: 1314
it has nothing to do with 'mormons' being the other sheep. God is a God of clarity, not of confusion. however, man is not a man of clarity. man is a man of confusion. hence, scriptures. hence, prophets. hence, pristhood. hence, revelation.

if you want to try to utilize man's confusion and the disagreements of mormons vs. mainstream christians as evidence of mormonism's lack of logical support, than you would need to include all of the 80,000+ 'mainstream' christian sects that cannot seem to agree on those clear points of doctrine.

what we believe is that God is a God of clarity. therefore, when things in the bible are not clear, or have become too convoluted by man's own imperfections, he corrects us. again, hence scripture. hence, prophets. hence, priesthood. hence, revelation.

aaron out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2008, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,568,206 times
Reputation: 262
thanx...but not convinced
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2008, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,822,955 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl View Post
it has nothing to do with 'mormons' being the other sheep. God is a God of clarity, not of confusion. however, man is not a man of clarity. man is a man of confusion. hence, scriptures. hence, prophets. hence, pristhood. hence, revelation.

if you want to try to utilize man's confusion and the disagreements of mormons vs. mainstream christians as evidence of mormonism's lack of logical support, than you would need to include all of the 80,000+ 'mainstream' christian sects that cannot seem to agree on those clear points of doctrine.

what we believe is that God is a God of clarity. therefore, when things in the bible are not clear, or have become too convoluted by man's own imperfections, he corrects us. again, hence scripture. hence, prophets. hence, priesthood. hence, revelation.

aaron out.
It has nothing to do with confusion, but understanding. This is not a difficult saying, compared to let say.....the Book of Revelation?

godspeed,

freedom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2008, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Missouri
250 posts, read 501,833 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimbabwe View Post
This is a common belief so you are not alone. Here is what Jesus said to the people in ancient America when he visited them as recorded in the Book of Mormon:

17 That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

18 And now, because of stiffneckedness and unbelief they understood not my word; therefore I was commanded to say no more of the Father concerning this thing unto them.

19 But, verily, I say unto you that the Father hath commanded me, and I tell it unto you, that ye were separated from among them because of their iniquity; therefore it is because of their iniquity that they know not of you.

20 And verily, I say unto you again that the other tribes hath the Father separated from them; and it is because of their iniquity that they know not of them.

21 And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


22 And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching.

23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice—that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.

24 But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me.

(3 Nephi 15:17-24, emphasis added))

Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I will let this scripture stand as the answer to your question. Please read it. Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2008, 11:56 AM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,844,585 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimbabwe View Post
Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I will let this scripture stand as the answer to your question. Please read it. Thanks.
Except that what you quoted isn't necessarily scripture to everyone.

That's key.

I don't consider the Book of Mormon to be scripture.

I consider the Bible and the Bible alone to be scripture (as it relates to inspired writings given by the Holy Spirit).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2008, 12:07 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 5,438,153 times
Reputation: 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Except that what you quoted isn't necessarily scripture to everyone.

That's key.

I don't consider the Book of Mormon to be scripture.

I consider the Bible and the Bible alone to be scripture (as it relates to inspired writings given by the Holy Spirit).
that's great. a lot of people don't consider the bible scripture, but that doesn't take away from its validity. despite all of the 'evidences' against it, despite all of the misunderstood, mistranslated, seemingly horrific accounts within it, i know it still to be true. i am assuming you do as well. in the same way i have found the bible to be true, i find the book of mormon to be true.

the problem with trying a book of scripture as if in a court of law is that there is no empirical evidence either way that it is indeed, a book of divinity. so in order to understand the bible and try to gain a testimony of it, you would use the bible. you would not turn to the koran, to science, to jerry springer, or even to the late night commentators.

same with the book of mormon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2008, 01:34 PM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,844,585 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl View Post
that's great. a lot of people don't consider the bible scripture, but that doesn't take away from its validity. despite all of the 'evidences' against it, despite all of the misunderstood, mistranslated, seemingly horrific accounts within it, i know it still to be true. i am assuming you do as well. in the same way i have found the bible to be true, i find the book of mormon to be true.

the problem with trying a book of scripture as if in a court of law is that there is no empirical evidence either way that it is indeed, a book of divinity. so in order to understand the bible and try to gain a testimony of it, you would use the bible. you would not turn to the koran, to science, to jerry springer, or even to the late night commentators.

same with the book of mormon.
The Bible is not 'a' book.

It's a collection of books written by different authors across broad expanses of time and from every walk of life and yet all books still harmonize with each other for a central message.

In my opinion, the Book of Mormon does not meet that same standard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top