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If I remember correctly Mormon's have used the verse below to validate their faith.
just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. (John 10:15-17, NIV).
I had a friend a long time ago talk to me about her beliefs and Mormonism. She referenced this verse, as did yet another Mormon friend many years later. I read it today and realized that the sheep from the other pen that Jesus is referencing is the Gentiles. The sheep he was talking to were the Jews. And the other sheep were the Gentiles...culturally gentiles were considered worse than dogs. Just an interesting thought I wanted to pass along.
This is a common belief so you are not alone. Here is what Jesus said to the people in ancient America when he visited them as recorded in the Book of Mormon:
17 That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
18 And now, because of stiffneckedness and unbelief they understood not my word; therefore I was commanded to say no more of the Father concerning this thing unto them.
19 But, verily, I say unto you that the Father hath commanded me, and I tell it unto you, that ye were separated from among them because of their iniquity; therefore it is because of their iniquity that they know not of you.
20 And verily, I say unto you again that the other tribes hath the Father separated from them; and it is because of their iniquity that they know not of them.
21 And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
22 And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching.
23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice—that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.
24 But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me.
I personally dont think Jesus would have allowed so much confusion if it were true (mormons being the other sheep). The bible states "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace" (Psalms, I think).
Just from a debateable perspective..Galatians 1:8-9 would cause me confusion if I were to 'buy into' that argument. God is of Peace, therefore it cannot be true.
We both cant be right, Mormons, Fundamentalists. they are is opposition.
***Please this is not meant to 'mormon' bash, thats getting old.....
just a point.
If they are the other sheep...explain Gal 1:8-9. too me its 1+1=3. doesnt make sense.
it has nothing to do with 'mormons' being the other sheep. God is a God of clarity, not of confusion. however, man is not a man of clarity. man is a man of confusion. hence, scriptures. hence, prophets. hence, pristhood. hence, revelation.
if you want to try to utilize man's confusion and the disagreements of mormons vs. mainstream christians as evidence of mormonism's lack of logical support, than you would need to include all of the 80,000+ 'mainstream' christian sects that cannot seem to agree on those clear points of doctrine.
what we believe is that God is a God of clarity. therefore, when things in the bible are not clear, or have become too convoluted by man's own imperfections, he corrects us. again, hence scripture. hence, prophets. hence, priesthood. hence, revelation.
it has nothing to do with 'mormons' being the other sheep. God is a God of clarity, not of confusion. however, man is not a man of clarity. man is a man of confusion. hence, scriptures. hence, prophets. hence, pristhood. hence, revelation.
if you want to try to utilize man's confusion and the disagreements of mormons vs. mainstream christians as evidence of mormonism's lack of logical support, than you would need to include all of the 80,000+ 'mainstream' christian sects that cannot seem to agree on those clear points of doctrine.
what we believe is that God is a God of clarity. therefore, when things in the bible are not clear, or have become too convoluted by man's own imperfections, he corrects us. again, hence scripture. hence, prophets. hence, priesthood. hence, revelation.
aaron out.
It has nothing to do with confusion, but understanding. This is not a difficult saying, compared to let say.....the Book of Revelation?
This is a common belief so you are not alone. Here is what Jesus said to the people in ancient America when he visited them as recorded in the Book of Mormon:
17 That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
18 And now, because of stiffneckedness and unbelief they understood not my word; therefore I was commanded to say no more of the Father concerning this thing unto them.
19 But, verily, I say unto you that the Father hath commanded me, and I tell it unto you, that ye were separated from among them because of their iniquity; therefore it is because of their iniquity that they know not of you.
20 And verily, I say unto you again that the other tribes hath the Father separated from them; and it is because of their iniquity that they know not of them.
21 And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
22 And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching.
23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice—that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.
24 But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me.
(3 Nephi 15:17-24, emphasis added))
Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I will let this scripture stand as the answer to your question. Please read it. Thanks.
Except that what you quoted isn't necessarily scripture to everyone.
That's key.
I don't consider the Book of Mormon to be scripture.
I consider the Bible and the Bible alone to be scripture (as it relates to inspired writings given by the Holy Spirit).
that's great. a lot of people don't consider the bible scripture, but that doesn't take away from its validity. despite all of the 'evidences' against it, despite all of the misunderstood, mistranslated, seemingly horrific accounts within it, i know it still to be true. i am assuming you do as well. in the same way i have found the bible to be true, i find the book of mormon to be true.
the problem with trying a book of scripture as if in a court of law is that there is no empirical evidence either way that it is indeed, a book of divinity. so in order to understand the bible and try to gain a testimony of it, you would use the bible. you would not turn to the koran, to science, to jerry springer, or even to the late night commentators.
that's great. a lot of people don't consider the bible scripture, but that doesn't take away from its validity. despite all of the 'evidences' against it, despite all of the misunderstood, mistranslated, seemingly horrific accounts within it, i know it still to be true. i am assuming you do as well. in the same way i have found the bible to be true, i find the book of mormon to be true.
the problem with trying a book of scripture as if in a court of law is that there is no empirical evidence either way that it is indeed, a book of divinity. so in order to understand the bible and try to gain a testimony of it, you would use the bible. you would not turn to the koran, to science, to jerry springer, or even to the late night commentators.
same with the book of mormon.
The Bible is not 'a' book.
It's a collection of books written by different authors across broad expanses of time and from every walk of life and yet all books still harmonize with each other for a central message.
In my opinion, the Book of Mormon does not meet that same standard.
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