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Old 08-16-2019, 04:04 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Water is an important substance and symbol even beyond Christianity. We see a lot of teachings in Eastern studies, such as Buddhism and Taoism, comparing our lives and ways with water. Considering how much we are composed of water, and how essential it is (along with air), its significance to our thinking (both in functioning, as well as comparisons to matters in life) might become notable as well.
Trigger alert: Baptists and most magical thinking Christians may be unduly triggered by what to them would be my very heretical views of Baptism.

I have previously presented my belief that the "Water of Life" referred to by Jesus and the rite of Baptism has a specific relation to the fluid surrounding our brain. People are traditionally reacting to things like Baptism as magical or sacramental rituals with some spiritual power to transform them magically. It is impossible to defeat such thinking. Of course, I do not and never did believe in anything magical but I was intrigued by the importance attributed to this ritual by Jesus and the symbolism of the Holy Spirit descending upon Jesus with God proclaiming his pleasure in the achievements of His Son. I wondered if there was some more science-based message of achievement embedded within the symbolism of this ritual.

Given Christ's status, it was particularly noteworthy that He sought out John who was not ostensibly His equal. John was himself perplexed by this so it added to my interest in the import of this ritual. I eventually concluded that Jesus sought out John because John was widely accepted and had established the concept of baptism for spiritual development. There is a standard pattern of human cognitive learning and the acceptance of new ideas. There must be at each new departure, a connecting link with previous knowledge or experience. Our means of achieving eternal life consists of attaining the emotional maturity and self-control necessary to constrain our inner drives motivated by agape love. Basically, we know that mental activity is a process of energy change. Our brain cells transmute energy into thoughts. We do not know what happens to energy in the form of thoughts, but the fluid around the brain ("Water of Life"?) is intricately involved. Apparently, there is some electrochemical energy transmutation involving neurotransmitters, between our consciousness and its interaction with our inner urges or basic drives ("He who overcomes"), that produces changes in the fluid around our brain.

A direct relationship between our emotional maturity, mental health, depression, etc., and the composition of the fluid around the brain has been scientifically established and there are routine supplementation protocols for mental problems using prescription drugs. Research conducted with emotionally retarded patients and this fluid around the brain provided potential insights into this connection. Altering the fluid around the brains of these patients has produced startling, if only temporary, increases in their emotional age. The fact that the changes were only temporary and could not be maintained without external supplementation indicates that the composition of the fluid must be changed by internal mental processes (eg, "overcoming"). The good news is that temporary supplementation can create a more suitable environment for the brain to perform the mental processes of self-control and that might eventually make the supplementation unnecessary, barring actual congenital or disease factors.

Our emotional age increases for most of us as we chronologically age but it is not automatic. It is both determined by and determines our level of self-control over our emotions and it is related to the composition of the fluid around our brain. That was sufficient to suggest that the kind of mental development we achieve throughout life is the source for the changes in this "Water of Life" within us otherwise we would never change our emotional age. This development (or lack thereof) has obvious implications for the fate that awaits our soul. It is entirely plausible that the energy of our soul (the source of our emotional maturity) is transformed by a specific type of mental activity and ion transfer in the fluid surrounding our brain (overcoming with Love??).

This led me to consider how this idea could ever be communicated to our primitive ancestors. If changes in the water-like fluid surrounding our brain is the operative paradigm it is unlikely that there would be any direct way to communicate this to such primitive minds. Our primitive ancestors would need a simple introduction to this concept probably using the link with the birth water that precedes our physical birth. For the primitives of John's day, immersion into river water and the rebirth that was symbolized by it was the obvious candidate. John the Baptist's teaching of baptism by water was simply our first introduction to the methodology of spiritual rebirth. His task was to pave the way for understanding.

John 1:26,

. . . I baptize with water; but in the midst of you there stood one whom you do not know. He it is who is to come after me, who has been set above me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to loose.

How could what he did be not worthy, if water baptism was crucial to salvation?

John 1:31,

. . . And I did not know him. But that he may be known to Israel, for this reason have I come baptising with water.


The baptism was to identify Jesus not save anyone.

and John 1:33,

. . . And I did not know him. But he who sent me to baptise with water said to me, 'He upon whom thou wilt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit.'


If Jesus's real baptism was the one given by John (and the one we need to emulate) then WHY did Jesus repeatedly refer to the baptism He had to be baptised with AFTER having been baptized by John?

Luke 12:50 (New King James Version)

50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!


The baptism Jesus was to be baptized with was death and rebirth as Spirit (Holy Spirit) since His consciousness is the ONLY human one that actually contained the complete Holy Spirit of God (Identical) and He could thereby make it available to the rest of us as the Comforter and guide within the collective human consciousness.

John 3:5-8 (King James Version)

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


This is the purpose of baptism - acquiring the Holy Spirit (inner guidance) to spiritually mature sufficiently through "love of God and each other" to be reborn after death as Spirit as Jesus was.

Romans 6:4 (King James Version)

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


The Holy Spirit within us guides our embryo souls to develop properly within the "Water of Life" that surrounds our brain. THAT is the "Water of Life" referred to that is within us. There are many mentions of this internal water of life,
John 7:38,

. . . He who believes in me, as the scripture says, ' From within him there shall flow rivers of living water.'

John 4:13

. . . He, however, who drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up unto life everlasting.

Revelation 22:1,

. . . And He showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming forth from the throne of God. . . And He who was on the throne said . . . To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall possess these things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


Clearly, the "Water of Life" within us that relates to our ability to achieve rebirth refers to the fluid surrounding our brain.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Middle America
10,955 posts, read 7,015,714 times
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Whoa, my last line touched a nerve and unleashed some kind of religious barrage! Needless to say, I don't have time to read such long treatises, especially with scriptures thrown in (I've read the Bible through several times and know what's in it, thank you). I only read the first sentence. I guess he(?) also thinks I read previous posts by him, which isn't the case. So there's no point trying to connect dots here.

There's something above about baptism. LOL My comments had nothing to do with baptism whatsoever.

Back to that sentence that was highlighted, in actuality, I only referred to the brain needing water / hydration for functioning, which can't be disputed, and that looking at water can teach us things. Pretty harmless and straightforward stuff! The spectacle (reaction) was enjoyed nonetheless, even though I only glanced at it

Last edited by Thoreau424; 08-16-2019 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:16 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
Reputation: 7792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Whoa, my last line seemed to touch a nerve and unleash some kind of religious barrage! Needless to say, I don't have time to read such long treatises, especially with scriptures thrown in (I've read the Bible through several times and know what's in it, thank you). I only read the first sentence. My time is valuable.

There's something above about baptism. LOL My comments had nothing to do with baptism whatsoever. Oh well, knee-jerk conclusions, knee-jerk assumptions, and knee-jerk ramblings will continue to be ignored by me.
As You Wish!
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:33 PM
 
952 posts, read 319,790 times
Reputation: 213
Originally Posted by unfailing presence
Another interesting scientific fact that the bible spoke of long ago is that there is estimated to be more water contained inside the earth's crust than on it's surface .
Once again verifying the scientific accuracy of fundies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Except that the Bible also says that there are waters above the firmament which is a hard dome over the earth.
Science has affirmed this as well in the earth's earliest days the moisture was not dispensed in the form of rain as we see it today.
Another scientific fact spoken of in the bible .
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:59 PM
 
9,670 posts, read 9,938,192 times
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Jesus said from John 4:14 ...``But who ever dinks the water I give them will never thirst , Indeed the water I give them will be in a well of water springing up into everlasting life ``.................In Revelation 22..... And he showed me a pure river of water of life , clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb of God .................. Were in the rich man and Lazarus from Luke :19-31, where the rich man died as was buried , in hades where he was in torment as said ``Father Abraham , have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue , because I am in agony in this fire ``.................... See this said there is water in heaven but no water in hades
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:03 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,928 posts, read 26,160,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Except that the Bible also says that there are waters above the firmament which is a hard dome over the earth. The firmament separates the waters that are above the firmament from the waters below the firmament which has windows that open so that it can rain. Hardly scientific or accurate. The Bible speaks of cosmic waters that are below the earth in keeping with the cosmology of the ancient Near East peoples. The Bible does not speak of scientific matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfailing presence View Post
Originally Posted by unfailing presence
Another interesting scientific fact that the bible spoke of long ago is that there is estimated to be more water contained inside the earth's crust than on it's surface .
Once again verifying the scientific accuracy of fundies.



Science has affirmed this as well in the earth's earliest days the moisture was not dispensed in the form of rain as we see it today.
Another scientific fact spoken of in the bible .
You don't understand. The water which in the Bible is above the firmament is not the atmospheric water (clouds, humidity, etc). In Biblical thought, as in ancient Near Eastern thought in general, the water that is above the firmament is above a solid dome which is supported by pillars. The firmament was thought to be a hard nonporous material whose purpose was to hold back the heavenly waters.

The Bible simply does not speak of scientific facts. That's not its purpose. The Bible speaks of theological matters, not scientific. It wouldn't hurt you to do some studying into the Bible as it relates to the ancient Near East. Here is a quick introduction to ancient Israelite cosmology, just six minutes long.

Ancient Israelite Cosmology Explained


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8duzqEOhw8
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:45 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,267,885 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfailing presence View Post
Originally Posted by unfailing presence
Another interesting scientific fact that the bible spoke of long ago is that there is estimated to be more water contained inside the earth's crust than on it's surface .
Once again verifying the scientific accuracy of fundies.



Science has affirmed this as well in the earth's earliest days the moisture was not dispensed in the form of rain as we see it today.
Another scientific fact spoken of in the bible .
Plus the word "firmament in Hebrew does not mean a hard dome.



TANAKh Genesis 1:6 God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, that it may separate water from water."

NLT Genesis 1:6 And God said, "Let there be space between the waters, to separate water from water."


NIV Genesis 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water."


NAS Genesis 1:6 Then God said, "Let there be (1)an (a)expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."


ESV Genesis 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse(1 )in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."


DARBY Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it be a division between waters and waters.


ASV Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.


It refers to an actual space that is a literal area or firmly fixed area.
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:08 AM
 
952 posts, read 319,790 times
Reputation: 213
Originally Posted by unfailing presence
Originally Posted by unfailing presence
Another interesting scientific fact that the bible spoke of long ago is that there is estimated to be more water contained inside the earth's crust than on it's surface .
Once again verifying the scientific accuracy of fundies.



Science has affirmed this as well in the earth's earliest days the moisture was not dispensed in the form of rain as we see it today.
Another scientific fact spoken of in the bible


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You don't understand. The water which in the Bible is above the firmament is not the atmospheric water (clouds, humidity, etc).

The Bible simply does not speak of scientific facts. That's not its purpose. The Bible speaks of theological matters, not scientific. It wouldn't hurt you to do some studying into the Bible as it relates to the ancient Near East. Here is a quick introduction to ancient Israelite cosmology, just six minutes long.

Ancient Israelite Cosmology Explained


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8duzqEOhw8
According to the Bible's description you are having trouble understanding . The bible speaks of the earth
with " NOTHING" surrounding it but the vastness of the universe :

" He....hangeth the earth upon NOTHING ." ( Job 26:7 )
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:04 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,928 posts, read 26,160,446 times
Reputation: 16087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You don't understand. The water which in the Bible is above the firmament is not the atmospheric water (clouds, humidity, etc). In Biblical thought, as in ancient Near Eastern thought in general, the water that is above the firmament is above a solid dome which is supported by pillars. The firmament was thought to be a hard nonporous material whose purpose was to hold back the heavenly waters.

The Bible simply does not speak of scientific facts. That's not its purpose. The Bible speaks of theological matters, not scientific. It wouldn't hurt you to do some studying into the Bible as it relates to the ancient Near East. Here is a quick introduction to ancient Israelite cosmology, just six minutes long.

Ancient Israelite Cosmology Explained


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8duzqEOhw8
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfailing presence View Post
Originally Posted by unfailing presence
Originally Posted by unfailing presence
Another interesting scientific fact that the bible spoke of long ago is that there is estimated to be more water contained inside the earth's crust than on it's surface .
Once again verifying the scientific accuracy of fundies.



Science has affirmed this as well in the earth's earliest days the moisture was not dispensed in the form of rain as we see it today.
Another scientific fact spoken of in the bible




According to the Bible's description you are having trouble understanding . The bible speaks of the earth
with " NOTHING" surrounding it but the vastness of the universe :

" He....hangeth the earth upon NOTHING ." ( Job 26:7 )
What you are doing here is taking one verse which at first glance seems to support your argument, but you are ignoring, or perhaps don't know about the many other verses in the Hebrew Bible which speak of the earth resting on pillars, and having foundations. Those verses include Psalm 75:3, Psalm 104:5, Job 38:4-6; 1 Samuel 2:8, 2 Samuel 22:16, Zechariah 12:1, and Proverbs 8:29.

And then there are the pillars or foundations upon which the heavens rest. Job 26:11, 1 Samuel 22:8,

Look. Scholars of the Hebrew Bible and of the ancient Near East know that the ancient Hebrews had basically the same cosmology as the other ANE peoples. That includes a small round earth (like a plate) resting on pillars, a hard firmament over the earth which is supported by pillars,etc. I'm not making any of this up. You can either make an effort to educate yourself about this or you can remain ignorant about the subject.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:22 AM
 
952 posts, read 319,790 times
Reputation: 213
"He ...hangeth the earth upon nothing." ( Job 26:7 )

Nothing means nothing in God's scientific characterization of the earth's configuration .
Verse twisting & contorting by the spiritually unenlightened not withstanding .
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