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You know, some of us truly deserve it. And, I hate to tell you... but, it's not because we're so much like Jesus.
I hope you feel better. You've certainly set me straight.... and, my mind is changed!
But, I'm sure you feel that I'm lost anyway...
goodnight!
What do you mean by the part above that I put in bold. I'm sorry, I don't understand.
None of this is about me feeling better or setting you straight or changing your mind. Those are all things only God can do. I am merely speaking what the scriptures say is true. I wouldn't have put the time in to type all of this out if I didn't care about you, or anyone else who reads this. I'm sincere. I'm not even someone who debates. Debates never change anyone's mind! Not that I've ever seen. As soon as a discussion turns into a debate, I leave it. It's not my purpose. As far as I'm concerned, this was strictly conversation.
I've put no thought as to whether or not you're lost. Not in the way you're implying here. I can't judge that because I don't know you. This might surprise you, my friend, but there are some things I leave up to God!
If you aren't familiar with the seeker-sensitive movement, do a Google search on it. You really will be surprised at what you learn.
I see where you're coming from. I really do. People are speaking out about Oprah and her "religion" because it's new. Oprah has a very strong influence on people, as I'm sure you know. People are concerned about her and trying to draw attention to this precisely because of this influence and are trying to save people from being deceived into her false teachings before it's too late.
The other books, about AA and others, have been written and addressed, too. But, as I said, the Oprah situation is 1) new and prevalent in the news and 2) urgent due to her influence on millions and millions worldwide.
I know where you're coming from though. There are people who are bashing Oprah and spouting hateful things. This isn't God's way, so please don't confuse them with true Christians. Many true Christians are in prayer for her and what she's involved in. But, that's not enough. We also have to speak out and not stand idly in the pathway of sin.
WorldCitizen, I want to assure you that I am hearing everything you're saying. This is why I'm commenting on each section of your posts individually. I'm glad to know that you understand that Oprah is in a position to do great harm. Truly, she's fulfilling prophecies about the last days concerning false prophets. The best way we can influence her and her followers is 1) to pray for them. Absolutely! 2) To bring awareness of what she's doing and how she's leading people astray, and 3) to be aware of people around us who are following her and talk to them about how unbiblical it is. Show them the scriptures that say there IS only ONE way. We live our lives for Christ openly, and unashamedly, and in love. (But, "in love" doesn't mean coddling people in their sin. And again, it doesn't mean blasting them either. It's showing compassion and showing them the way of Christ.)
I'll be honest and say that I didn't read the article in the OP or hear the one on the radio. I haven't watched television in years and I don't own a radio. But, at the same time, I'm not concerned how people outside the church view me. I am concerned about how God views me and living rightly before Him. We are to be a people of no reputation.
I didn't see this post when I posted. ( maybe there are more??) Again, I totally agree. Thank you. You put it all so clearly and truthfully.
I believe that what Oprah is promoting is error but I believe that it would be great if all who realize this send a prayer up for her, that God would open her eyes to see this error. I don't believe that she should be condemned and tossed by the wayside like someone mentioned earlier. I believe that if she had been able to do some research into the scriptures and maybe realize that many Christians believe and understand that those scriptures which present God as being jealous may be an example of condenscension in the scriptures in which feelings or characteristics of mankind are attributed to God because this is how God is relating to man on our level.
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Condenscension:
When God is spoken of as if He were human, or were a part of His creation, this is done in His condescension, so that He may reveal Himself in terms within the range of human perception.
Figures of Speech (http://www.gtft.org/Library/miscellaneous/FiguresOfSpeechCondescension.htm - broken link)
We have a reponsibility to our Lord and Savior.We should be disciples.Jesus first disciples went from town to town,preaching a non-watered down version of the word of God..We should watch our behavior and our words, but that does not mean that we should support anything that is anti-God's word.We're here to defend the gospel(Phil 1 :17 NKJV).(Not what we think will be good for the world.)
Jesus said:"And you will be hated by all for my name's sake." Luke 21:17 NKJV .That doesn't sound like we're all suppose to get along and be beloved..
Many people are disillusioned with their churchs.This has much to do with man-made rules and laws,people's attitudes,etc., and little to do with Jesus.Someone who loves Jesus will want to keep Him close.If that means that have to try different churchs,they'll do it.It may mean back to basics:meeting with other's of like mind,having no fellowship with darkness.
Yes...Jesus' disciples went about preaching a non-watered down word of God. That is precisely what I am trying to get across.
Yes...we are to defend the gospel ( I like to call it " contending for the faith". )
Yes, people are disilusioned with their 'churches' , and for all the above reasons.
I also agree about trying differant groups, but always, always, search the scriptures to see if what is being taught is so. No matter how friendly a group is, if they are not teaching the whole counsel of God, they are misleading their followers.
My point NEVER WAS that it's o.k. to preach another gospel.
This whole thread where everyone joins in without even reading the OP or understanding what I really said is a perfect example of how misguided zeal to defend the gospel - drives people running the other way!
(I want to run away and - I'm already saved!)
God please give all of us discernment in dealing with people. How the world views us is important to the kingdom... whether you like it or not!
While it is true that everyone will be accountable for their personal decisions (regarding church and Christ) - we'll also be accountable for our actions toward people that caused them to stumble... and, what we did to make it right.
and, FYI, I really don't care to know more about the "Seeker Sensitive movement!"...
God bless.
Last edited by World Citizen; 04-21-2008 at 08:36 PM..
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Yes...Jesus' disciples went about preaching a non-watered down word of God. That is precisely what I am trying to get across.
Yes...we are to defend the gospel ( I like to call it " contending for the faith". )
Yes, people are disilusioned with their 'churches' , and for all the above reasons.
I also agree about trying differant groups, but always, always, search the scriptures to see if what is being taught is so. No matter how friendly a group is, if they are not teaching the whole counsel of God, they are misleading their followers.
Exactly!We are sheep who should follow our Shepherd..
"Am I not trying to win the approval of men,or of God?
Or am I trying to please men?If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Gal 1:10 NIV
I also believe that there is a certain way that we should approach those that we believe may be in error. I don't believe that we should hit them over the head with the sword. For example I think about Titus 3:1-3 a lot:
"Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle to all, showing all humility to all men. For we ourselves were once also foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another." God bless.
Interesting post ... I may be the only person in the whole world that has never ever watched the Oprah show. She does have a large following. When Obama planned a trip to Columbia SC he was scheduled to speak at an auditorium with seating for 2000 people. At that time Oprah announced her support for Obama and that she planned to attend the Columbia rally. The request for tickets to attend the rally was overwhelming and they had to be moved from the 2000 seat auditorium to the William Brice Stadium which seats 80k. Not saying 80k turned out but close to 30k did. If Oprah had stayed away the event would have continued along in the little auditorium.
My point ... Oprah has a HUGE influence on her followers. All we can do is pray for her and God will take care of this. He is a jealous God.
2 Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
When it's all said and done I too hope and pray I can say:
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith.
My point NEVER WAS that it's o.k. to preach another gospel.
And yet you defend her? By the way, a couple of times I see people saying that we shouldn't "cast Oprah aside." Who said anything about doing that? I went back and read the whole thread. No one said that. Those are words you put in our mouths.
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This whole thread where everyone joins in without even reading the OP or understanding what I really said is a perfect example of how misguided zeal to defend the gospel - drives people running the other way!
I went back and read the article you posted. I didn't learn anything I didn't know already.
You speak about not condemning Oprah but you have done nothing but condemn Christians, church and Christianity in your posts. You blamed Christians for Oprah's "falling away." You blame Christians for "being mean." You are the only one doing any condemning in this thread.
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(I want to run away and, I'm already saved!)
No comment.
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God please give all of us discernment in dealing with people. How the world views us is important to the kingdom... whether you like it or not! While it is true that everyone will be accountable for their personal decisions (regarding church and Christ) - we'll also be accountable for our actions toward people that caused them to stumble... and, what we did to make it right.
Reputations and stumbling blocks are two completely different things. We are also accountable for standing idly in the path of sin. You have judged us to be condemning of Oprah for speaking the truth. No one said Oprah was evil or horrible or damned. The truth was spoken factually.
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and, FYI, I really don't care to know more about the Seeker Sensitive movement!...
Then you will be all the more susceptible, and answerable for it. What if I had said that I really don't care to know more about the word "seek" when you recommended I study it? I did not speak in anger towards anything you said. You simply disagree with me and it made you angry.
2 Peter 3:15-17 describes Oprah's situation very well:
"And remember, the Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. (This applies to Oprah, too!) This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction. I am warning you ahead of time, dear friends. Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing.
It is God calling "wicked" those who twist scripture to mean something different than what He intended.
I also believe that there is a certain way that we should approach those that we believe may be in error. I don't believe that we should hit them over the head with the sword. For example I think about Titus 3:1-3 a lot:
"Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle to all, showing all humility to all men. For we ourselves were once also foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another." God bless.
I agree. Beating people over the head certainly isn't "good fruit!"
I love that verse in Titus. We all have a long way to go before being perfected in it.
As far as people speaking evil of no one and being subject to rulers and authorities, I just wish people would apply that in their lives when it comes to speaking presidents in office, whomever they might be, democrat or republican. We are to pray for our leaders, not speak ill of them.
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