The Church and "church" in the last days. (hell, myths)

[Simple Living]

I do believe that we are in the last days, so I wanted to open up a discussion as to what people think the role of the Church, and the church, will be in these last days. For my purposes, Church (capital C) meaning True Believers who are living for, obeying and following Christ. The Bible calls these people the the Church. The church, (small c) meaning much of organized religion, the lukewarm, seeker-sensitive, serving themselves, lazy, cultish, politically correct, "tolerant," non-biblical folks who call themselves Christians, but aren't - not according to the biblical definition.

The Bible warns how the church, organized religion, is going to be in the last days and how many people will be deceived. "Even the elect, if it were possible." (I'm not so prideful that I don't believe I couldn't be deceived, so I wanted to know what to expect and how to protect myself.) Here's what I'm learning:

Paul, in his second letter to Timothy writes about various aspects of the organized church. (Keep in mind, these are NOT true believers, but the organized institution and people that are "playing" church.)

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth--men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, persecutions, sufferings--what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. -- 2 Timothy 3:1-13

From bad to worse! Makes me wonder if this has anything to do with the question that Jesus asked: "However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" -- Luke 18:8

Paul also warned about the increase of false doctrine in the organized church.

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths . -- 2 Timothy 4:1-4

Paul even says that some will follow the teachings of demons. (Could part of this be Oprah's new "religion?" How about Scientology, which was written in 1950 and revised many times?)

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. -- 1 Timothy 4:1

It sounds crazy that people would follow demons, but 2 Corinthians says how that will happen:

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. -- 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

And listen to this warning, from James, to the Church - true believers. (And compare this to what were seeing in the church today.)

Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that." As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil. Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins. Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you. Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains. You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near. -- James 4:13-5:8

That section talking about hoarding wealth sounds like a lot of churches today who have huge building funds (for example) for larger facilities and pastors with extravagant salaries. These don't even have to be TV preachers or mega-churches. (NOTE: This thread is NOT a rant about TV preachers, please.) Most of the world lives in poverty and today's churches spend more on foolishness and "growth" than they give to help people who are hungry or have trouble finding clean drinking water. There are organizations out there that can feed a lot people for a month on very little money and the organized churches of today squander and hoard - for themselves.

So, in these last days, how are True Believers, the Church, supposed to relate to all of this? How can people protect themselves from following heresies, false prophets and demonic doctrine? 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 has a great answer, in part: Do not put out the Spirit's fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.


So does Acts 17:11 - Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

[nay624]

WOW....awesome topic.
I believe we are at the begining of the end....
It will become increasingly more and more difficult to remain "lukewarm".
I believe for those who are true believers, they will begin to see this...
what scripture states in the end..."right will be wrong and wrong will be right".
that is happening now....

The Lord has layed on my heart 2 things recently:
1) pray-fervently, for all kinds of things....
2) WE are the BODY of Christ....I am not to judge which mormon, or catholic , or christian is truely Born Again.....just to believe we all have a very different part to play until the Lords Return......

God Bless....Great topic............

[Simple Living]

The church is complacent. They've been spared the truth about sin and hell and God's anger and judgment. They've been conned into pursuing their Best Life Now and seeking their dreams, comfort, entertainment and convenience and told that it's OK. They're asleep!


YouTube - Sam Ketcher: How Can You Sleep?


And, sadly, very few will awaken from this slumber because they're content. When things start getting bad, they'll call out to God again.

The Church, on the other hand, will have forsaken their comfort, dreams and desires to accomplish God's. Jesus is coming back for a bride without spot or blemish. He's coming back for a DEVOTED bride, not one who is flirting with the world and living according to her own lusts. She must be pure and spotless.

1 Peter 1:19 "It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God."

Jesus is spotless and, since our purpose is to be transformed into the image of Christ, by the renewing of our minds. We are commanded to be without spot or blemish.

Ephesians 5:25 - 27, gives the example of how husbands should love their wives; as Christ loved the Church.

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Christ loved the church and He gave himself for it (us). Do we, as Christians love Him enough to do the same?

In verse 26, that cleansing and sanctifying can only be done when we are in submission to Him, doing His will and through "water by the word." (Being in the Bible, meditating, studying, obeying and applying what we're reading.)

The result is the glorious Church without spot or blemish. It's Jesus' reward for His sacrifice. Are you part of that reward/Church? If you're part of the church, you're not. The church has a very big surprise coming to them come Judgment Day.

Matthew 7:21-23 is very important here:

“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

"I never knew you" - There was no personal relationship there between that person and Jesus. Just "religion" and "doctrine."

If people who call themselves "christians" only knew! If they only realized just how serious this is and not something to rest on their backsides on with complacency and false assurance!

[bchris02]

I was posting something about this over in another thread concerning homosexuality and was flamed out of the thread for what I had to say. Basically my point was is just because popular culture says something is no longer a sin doesn't mean the church should change the word of God to match popular culture. That doesn't go just for homosexuality but for anything acceptable in today's society but not in God's eyes. The church has went way too far on divorce in my opinion. People think nothing of it these days but breaking a promise before God is serious business (unless it is for Biblically acceptable reasons). Christ will forgive it though.

[Towhee]

Sorry but I do not agree with your idea about the capitalization of the word to indicate the church that Christ died for. The scriptures that I see do not do that. they use the small 's' in all occasions. Neither is the 'body' capitalized, and they are referring to the same thing. I find that all denominations are known by the capitalized 'Church'. Show me one that isn't.

Also, I find no referance to 'the organized church' in Paul's or any other New Testament writer's letters.

I have agreed with some of your past posts, but am confused by this one.

There is a lot of good scriptures in your lengthy post, and I do agree about all the denominations, and false teachings, that cannot be pleasing to God.

If you want to designate the church that Christ bled and died for, there are better ways to denote it than the usage of capitol versus small case 'c's !!!

[Simple Living]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

Sorry but I do not agree with your idea about the capitalization of the word to indicate the church that Christ died for. The scriptures that I see do not do that. they use the small 's' in all occasions. Neither is the 'body' capitalized, and they are referring to the same thing. I find that all denominations are known by the capitalized 'Church'. Show me one that isn't.

I'm afraid you read a bit too much into my post. I didn't mention any denominations or bodies at all, much less define them as "church" with a small or capital c. There isn't one reference in the Bible where any denomination or body is considered Christian. Being a Christian has nothing to do with denomination, it examines each individual separately.

Also, I find no referance to 'the organized church' in Paul's or any other New Testament writer's letters.

No, you won't find the mention of "organized church" in the Bible. It's a modern phrase used to describe the people that Paul was talking about on certain occasions.

I have agreed with some of your past posts, but am confused by this one.

I'm sorry for the confusion. Is there anything I can clear up?

There is a lot of good scriptures in your lengthy post, and I do agree about all the denominations, and false teachings, that cannot be pleasing to God.

I can't take any credit for the scriptures I posted, but I do apologize for my lengthy post(s). I know shorter ones are more comfortable to read. I'll try to do better on that.

If you want to designate the church that Christ bled and died for, there are better ways to denote it than the usage of capitol versus small case 'c's !!!

The reason for the small c and the Capital C was only so the reader could instantly distinguish which group of people I was referring to. If I used only a small c, they wouldn't know and I would have had to explain it every time.

While I appreciate your concern, in this day and age of political correctness silliness, forgive me if I'm not concerned over someone being offended over whether a letter is capitalized or not. It was merely regarding a reference only meant to simplify a post. It was not derogatory.

[Simple Living]

Originally Posted by bchris02

I was posting something about this over in another thread concerning homosexuality and was flamed out of the thread for what I had to say. Basically my point was is just because popular culture says something is no longer a sin doesn't mean the church should change the word of God to match popular culture. That doesn't go just for homosexuality but for anything acceptable in today's society but not in God's eyes. The church has went way too far on divorce in my opinion. People think nothing of it these days but breaking a promise before God is serious business (unless it is for Biblically acceptable reasons). Christ will forgive it though.

I would be surprised if they reacted any other way. Wouldn't you?

John 15:18-19 says,

"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

Matthew 10:22 says, "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

Matthew 24:13 says, "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

Mark 13:13 says, "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

As I type, gay rights protestors are marching down my street screaming about their rights and how they won't tolerate people speaking against them. The hypocrisy of this political correctness silliness is that they are free to speak hatefully against Christians or others who disagree with their lifestyle. We must tolerate and accept them completely while they do not feel the need to return the very tolerance they demand.

But, we have our hope: 2 Thessalonians 1.

[Towhee]

Okay, I reread and see what you are saying about using the Church, and the church. Sorry I missunderstood. :-(
I also believe that we are in the last days. But only God knows how long the last days will last. Actually, I think it is scriptural to say we have been in the last days, ever since Christ was resurrected !
"With God one day is as a thousand years, and a year is as a thousand days."
I frequently hope that those last days are almost over, but then, I also hope all would come to repentance and be saved. I am afraid that will not happen, and scripture backs that up.
We who know scripture know that evil will wax worse and worse, and that is certainly evident in this present age.

You have posted some very powerful scriptures. Many of my favorites. :-)
And I thank you for that.

[Simple Living]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

Okay, I reread and see what you are saying about using the Church, and the church. Sorry I missunderstood. :-(

I do it myself.


I also believe that we are in the last days. But only God knows how long the last days will last. Actually, I think it is scriptural to say we have been in the last days, ever since Christ was resurrected !
"With God one day is as a thousand years, and a year is as a thousand days." [/quote]

I can't disagree with you, here. There are some who show the difference this way - We've been in the "end times" since Christ's resurrection. Today, we are in the "last days" of the "end times."

Either way, we're close to going home!

I frequently hope that those last days are almost over, but then, I also hope all would come to repentance and be saved. I am afraid that will not happen, and scripture backs that up.
We who know scripture know that evil will wax worse and worse, and that is certainly evident in this present age.

Even Paul (I think) mentioned how conflicted he was about wanting to be with Jesus, but also desiring to remain here to work for Him. (I just can't recall the exact scripture.) I think it's normal for us to feel that way!

All the world won't be saved, we already know that. Instead, I think we might be more productive by thinking in terms of completing the work He gave us (as individuals) to do here. Also, to continually work towards being daily transformed into the image of Christ.

You have posted some very powerful scriptures. Many of my favorites. :-)
And I thank you for that.

Scripture is so comforting, healing, bold, glorious, exciting, etc., that each verse has it's own reason(s) for bursting out in worship of Him! I marvel at that! I can honestly say that talking with other believers about the Lord has to be one of my most favorite things to do on this earth. Hours pass so quickly - as you can tell by some of my lengthy posts.

[Towhee]

I just reread your openng post and noticed the part about churches having building funds. Our congregation did that some years ago. It is a 'thorn in the flesh for some of us, including I and my DH. We do not think we should have the 'stored-up' funds. We use every opportunity to give some of it to the needy. Of course we could give it all at once, but I do think we need some on hand for emergencies...like burn outs,loss of a loved, and serious illnesses, etc. Most of what we give goes to local people, and most are not of our congregation, or even of our faith.