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Old 05-03-2008, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,459,480 times
Reputation: 1101

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Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
You do not answer why you have left the one, holy catholic church as practiced by the overwhelming number of world-wide Christians [Protestants & Catholics alike].

Your interpretation of the Bible is contrary to the Christian Church.
If the Catholic church were Holy, it would be without sin, and would follow the pattern set by Jesus Christ.

Overcoming Sin
Passing the temptations of Satan
Receiving the Powers of God
Being born of God
Transfigured
And living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God

The reality of Organized Churchianity has become:

Seeking power over men.
Calling a man Holy Father
Taking the Sacrament at the direction of men
Worshipping Idols
Abandoning their first love for the doctrines of Man

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 05-04-2008, 05:06 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,824,050 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
One of the 3 ecumenical creeds [including Apostles and St. Athanasius
creed] of the Christian Church. Do all Christians prescribe/profess this creed? If not, why?
I don't believe that all Christians profess the creed. Some evangelicals don't profess it because they don't see it in the Bible. Some Christians may profess some parts of the creed and not other parts of it. God bless.

Amen-online: The Nicene Creed
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Old 05-04-2008, 06:55 AM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,306,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
I don't believe that all Christians profess the creed. Some evangelicals don't profess it because they don't see it in the Bible. Some Christians may profess some parts of the creed and not other parts of it. God bless.

Amen-online: The Nicene Creed
Thanks for the link.

<>< weather...
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,466 posts, read 21,217,203 times
Reputation: 17686
My creed comes from these scripture in the Gospels..

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son..That whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life..

Matthew 24:36-39
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,963,414 times
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Councils have met since the time of the original Apostles to counter heresy, and to define sound doctrine. The council of nicea in the 3rd century is just another example of that. The creed was another effort to overcome the development of fals doctrine;

"The first heresies denied not so much Christ's divinity as his true humanity (Gnostic Docetism). From apostolic times the Christian faith has insisted on the true incarnation of God's Son "come in the flesh".But already in the third century, the Church in a council at Antioch had to affirm against Paul of Samosata that Jesus Christ is Son of God by nature and not by adoption. The first ecumenical council of Nicaea in 325 confessed in its Creed that the Son of God is "begotten, not made, of the same substance (homoousios) as the Father", and condemned Arius, who had affirmed that the Son of God "came to be from things that were not" and that he was "from another substance" than that of the Father."

Catechism of the Catholic Church
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,459,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
Councils have met since the time of the original Apostles to counter heresy, and to define sound doctrine. The council of nicea in the 3rd century is just another example of that. The creed was another effort to overcome the development of fals doctrine;

"The first heresies denied not so much Christ's divinity as his true humanity (Gnostic Docetism). From apostolic times the Christian faith has insisted on the true incarnation of God's Son "come in the flesh".But already in the third century, the Church in a council at Antioch had to affirm against Paul of Samosata that Jesus Christ is Son of God by nature and not by adoption. The first ecumenical council of Nicaea in 325 confessed in its Creed that the Son of God is "begotten, not made, of the same substance (homoousios) as the Father", and condemned Arius, who had affirmed that the Son of God "came to be from things that were not" and that he was "from another substance" than that of the Father."

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Both are accurate, He had a Mother.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:20 PM
 
1,932 posts, read 4,259,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
Do all Christians prescribe/profess this creed? If not, why?
I can't speak for all Christians, just myself. I am a protestant, who believes in the fundamental tenants of Christianity and identify as Baptist. This creed is not prominent in my church and is not recited and in fact, I don't believe I ever heard of it until I came to CD. I've deliniated below my stance on the Nicene Creed...


Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son].
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
Here's where we may have an issue. In this sense, 'catholic' means 'universal', because when the "Church" was founded by Jesus through Peter, it meant the believers and followers of Christ. If you met one in Jerusalem, they believed and worshiped the same as one in Rome. While this may have been true in the 1st century, it is no longer. There are breaks within the orthodox (RCC - Eastern Orthodox) as well as within the protestant denominations. And everyone who claims Christ as a believer doesn't necessarily believe in him the way the NT apostles did. So I can't completely agree with that part of this sentence.

As for apostolic succession of the leader of the church, that was a man-made invention, unless I'm missing something. All the apostles were equals, one was not to be considered higher or lesser than the others. All believers make up the body of Christ's church, we are all able to be priests and teachers one to another. Therefore, I don't agree with this part of the sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I again disagree with this statment. This is man's interpretation of scripture, so therefore it may not reflect everyone's belief. I, being baptist especially, don't view baptism with any forgiving qualities. Only Jesus can forgive sins. Water plays no part. ** for the sake of argument, if baptism did forgive our sins, shouldn't it be by immersion as done in the NT and not the sprinkling as done in RCC? **

Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
I agree with this, as well.

I closing, the creed is a man-made device to summarize the basic fundamental beliefs of Christians. Therefore, while I may agree with 90% of it, it still doesn't hold the authority of scripture. It's a very good summary, but should not be viewed as the end-all be-all of Christian belief. There is much, much more.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:26 AM
 
224 posts, read 369,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mams1559 View Post
I again disagree with this statment. This is man's interpretation of scripture, so therefore it may not reflect everyone's belief. I, being baptist especially, don't view baptism with any forgiving qualities. Only Jesus can forgive sins. Water plays no part. ** for the sake of argument, if baptism did forgive our sins, shouldn't it be by immersion as done in the NT and not the sprinkling as done in RCC?
I find this statement odd. You say you don't think it plays a part but then you say for arguments sake only if it did that it should fit the NT mold. So then you do acknowledge that baptism was a part of the 1st century conversion.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Toronto; Canada
123 posts, read 275,502 times
Reputation: 20
I'm not sure about the "true " God from true God bit. If we care for God's existence and the consequences for what might be the values we as humans have on Earth, then I very often doubt the guarantee that we in his so-called image will attain everything He promised us, whether God makes the time pass for the ideal Jesus and the freedom of a national consititution etc. would bear a lot on the lives of ordinary cleansing of their spirits. Really, it "God" may just be a guide.

On the other hand just caring for his existence does not necessarily mean we won't do the rotten things we so often do to each other.
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:55 AM
 
1,932 posts, read 4,259,478 times
Reputation: 1233
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxGreyFalconxx View Post
I find this statement odd. You say you don't think it plays a part but then you say for arguments sake only if it did that it should fit the NT mold. So then you do acknowledge that baptism was a part of the 1st century conversion.
I believe baptism was performed in the 1st century, via immersion. Believe and be baptized was the call and thousands did. However, the saving grace and the forgiveness of sins comes through the spirit via Jesus. Jesus (God) is the only one who can forgive sins through a clensing of our spirit. Water batpism does not have saving or forgiving power since the resurrection of Christ.

I then said "for arguments sake" ... meaning this: If the RCC believes baptism is for the forgiveness of sin, as stated in the Creed, then shouldn't they follow the NT mold and baptize by immersion and only after one confesses their belief in Christ? That's how the apostles did it. It was just an observation on my part that the Creed says one thing, yet the RCC does another. That is all.

But seeing as I don't believe one receives foregiveness via baptism, it's a moot issue for me how the RCC baptizes. That's what I meant. Hope it's clearer.
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