Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And does God command true believers in scripture to have confidence in their eternal security??
What does the Bible say??
(I see a discussion between OSAS and NOSAS. I wonder if we can have a separate thread biblically discussing the fruit of the OSAS position.)
So, this isn't really to discuss "whether or not OSAS or NOSAS is right"... but rather what does the Bible say is the fruit of believing in our eternal security in Christ as born-again believers??
I agree. "Eternal life" (which is stated throughout scripture) is "eternal security" and equals "once saved always saved". Jesus spoke of it often. In fact, "zoe" which is the Greek word for life stated in relation to spiritual salvation is the "life of God" as I understand it.
The life of God is inherently eternal - because, well, it's the life of God, , and, God is Life... and, so to me "zoe" means "eternal life" = "eternal security" = "once saved always saved" = an ongoing life and salvation by grace through faith.
Otherwise, I guess it would be called "probation".
Thanks for the 1 John 5:13 scripture. I guess "Knowing" is the fruit. Is "knowing" a good fruit?? I'd say yes. "Knowing" is faith... not unbelief. Unbelief is not good... faith is good biblically. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit.
Christ said :' DONT die in your sins' . This is yet another strong indicator that we need to get our sins taken care of NOW in THIS life while we can. And not wait and hope for a 'pre-cleansing opportunity' before we can enter heaven. Jesus repeatedly told those who came to him by faith , that thier sins ARE forgiven... that they HAVE eternal life...etc... "Today is the day OF SALVATION" . And like the adage goes : If you snooze, you loose. Get ALL your sins forgiven today by recieiving the sufficent complete atonement of Christ who said 'It is finished' (the sin debt has been paid in full).
Yes, but what about the reprobate who have no ability to hear or understand what Jesus says... because God has not given them the grace to believe?? It's not true that we have that ability in a fallen state. Please go read nebulous' post in the Religion section.
I was married to a man who went forward consistently for prayer - and only got worse. He got so much worse - that he finally blasphemed the Holy Spirit. I have met and talked to numerous persons who are in the church and cannot believe. They will tell you, if you will listen to them without overriding what they are telling you, that they cannot believe... that God WILL NOT reveal Himself to them.
What about them?? They never have a real chance to believe until God reveals Himself to them.
Arminiasm is very hard on those who have not the ability to hear the Word or understand it - as if doing so could be derived of human origin in ability. It's not. They can't believe. We should have mercy upon them. God will, as the scriptures plainly state that God will have mercy on all.
Grace and peace,
"LeeLee"
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbeDavid
Christ said :' DONT die in your sins' . This is yet another strong indicator that we need to get our sins taken care of NOW in THIS life while we can. And not wait and hope for a 'pre-cleansing opportunity' before we can enter heaven. Jesus repeatedly told those who came to him by faith , that thier sins ARE forgiven... that they HAVE eternal life...etc... "Today is the day OF SALVATION" . And like the adage goes : If you snooze, you loose. Get ALL your sins forgiven today by recieiving the sufficent complete atonement of Christ who said 'It is finished' (the sin debt has been paid in full).
I'm going to testify. There is, people tell me, an incredible presence of the Holy Spirit upon me. They notice the Lord without me saying anything. When Jesus was on this earth, the demons in people would cry out.
Please allow me to share a story with you (one of many). I was leading a prayer meeting and this man came to the prayer meeting. He was seated to my left. I began to pray, he began to shout, "I'm a reprobate!! I'm a reprobate!!" We stopped praying and turned to him to allow him to explain, to share, and to - of course - seek to minister to him. His story was that he had gone forward for prayer on numerous occasions. He had tried so hard - in his own strength - to get saved - he'd literally been baptized 3 times.... trying to get saved. Still, he said, he was not saved. He told us that he wasn't like us. He couldn't hear Jesus in his heart. He said that when we spoke the Bible - it was the same net result as if we were speaking a language foreign to him. He said it meant nothing to him and nothing got in his heart. (This is what he told us.) He started yelling, "Why did God even make me!! Why did God make me when I cannot be saved!!" He was shouting, raging... at God.
We quieted him down. There was a pastor there even though I was leading the prayer meeting. We turned to the pastor to seek to lead this man to confess his sin and receive the Lord. Everything the pastor said bounced off his head and he turned it around in circular logic. He could not confess sin - just blamed everyone else for everything he did... and could not receive the Word. It was all circular. The pastor would say one thing, and he would twist it and make it circular so that it just didn't effect him at all. He turned it right around on God and others blaming everyone else and accepting no personal responsibility at all. Couldn't do anything to minister to him... and he only got more enraged. (The pastor met with him after the prayer meeting for 2 perhaps more hours - same result... only got worse.)
I've met a lot of reprobates who tell me all about how they are in church, they go forward for salvation prayers, they try doing everything they are "supposed to do" to get saved... and have no faith in their hearts and no revealing of the Word. And they only get worse - hearts harder and harder and harder - more and more bitter and angry. This is one story.
We can tell people to do this, that and the other... but if God doesn't reveal Himself they cannot have faith in their hearts and they cannot believe. Just letting you know another story... I see and hear these stories often. People feel comfortable confiding in me. There's very often NOTHING I can do to help them because the Holy Spirit passes right over them and will not work within them when the Word is spoken. And they have no ability to believe without the Holy Spirit working in them.
God only works in the hearts of hte elect. He doesn't reveal Jesus to the hearts of the reprobate. That's not just true in the pages of my Bible. If you really do ask people all around you... (people tend to just volunteer these truths to me) you'll find out, I believe, that the doctrines of election and reprobation are manifesting as a true reality all around us, imo.
We need to know the truth. Yes, we should call all to salvation. But what happens when the Holy Spirit refuses to work within someone because they are not His sheep... and are not elect... so God won't do the work of revealing Jesus to them??? Cause it happens... most of the time. Please ask people ... talk to them when witnessing and praying and talking to people in Church and out of church... and you'll see, I really think you will sincerely from my own experience.
Just my pov and one experience of mine.
Grace and peace,
LeeLee
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbeDavid
Christ said :' DONT die in your sins' . This is yet another strong indicator that we need to get our sins taken care of NOW in THIS life while we can. And not wait and hope for a 'pre-cleansing opportunity' before we can enter heaven. Jesus repeatedly told those who came to him by faith , that thier sins ARE forgiven... that they HAVE eternal life...etc... "Today is the day OF SALVATION" . And like the adage goes : If you snooze, you loose. Get ALL your sins forgiven today by recieiving the sufficent complete atonement of Christ who said 'It is finished' (the sin debt has been paid in full).
Jesus warned the people who were listening to Him while He was giving the Sermon on the Mount that: Every tree can be known by its fruit (Matthew 7:16) and that Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:19).
The clearest example of Christian fruit can be found in Galatians 5:22-23 where Paul describes the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Following Jesus is more than just saying that you are a Christian.
There will be periods in a Christian’s life where there is no visible fruit. ((times of sin and disobedience.)) We lose the joy of salvation when we live in sin.
God removes from us the assurance of our salvation. God doesn’t remove our salvation, but the assurance of it.
True believers are eternally secure in their salvation.
On top of Repenting and Trusting in the Savior, which locks us in. I would say read Gal. 5:22 for the fruits of the spirit. Acts of a sinful nature; Gal. 5:19-21.
Not sure I agree with the OSAS thought. "Because Scripture clearly affirms the fact we are protected by the power of God through faith. Faith brings us into a grace relationship with God as a gift of God through the merit of His beloved Son. We are saved by His record, not ours." IF YOU WALK AWAY you no longer have faith. Therefore you are no longer saved! Those that are really saved, will never walk away, no matter what!
I believe that believers can fall away from living a life of salvation. When we come into a saving relationship with God we have the promises and power which God gives us to live a victorious life. We are reconciled to Him and walking with Him, but I think that we can fall out of this walk if we fall away or turn away from Him. Colossians 1:
21. And you -- once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile,22. in the body of his flesh through the death, to present you holy, and unblemished, and unblameable before himself,23. if also ye remain in the faith, being founded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the good news, which ye heard, which was preached in all the creation that [is] under the heaven, of which I became -- I Paul -- a ministrant. (YLT)
There are consequences associated with this and many will experience loss associated with this during the ages, but I also believe that ultimately complete reconcilation has been secured for all of us although most are not walking in this reconciliation or salvation now. I believe that the ages will come to an end and there will be something beyond that which promises salvation, reconciliation for all. For from Him, and through Him, and to Him are all things. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-13-2008 at 01:52 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Osas
, and, God is Life... and, so to me "zoe" means "eternal life" = "eternal security" = "once saved always saved" = an ongoing life and salvation by grace through faith.
