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There seems to be some kind of wrong thinking about the US and that we are the only one's who believe the prophecies of Revelation and end times. There are millions of people around the world who believe this, and who will be gone after the rapture.
That cuts down on the whole "too many to chip" theory. And who said it was going to be a chip, anyway? No one knows what the mark will actually be.
Then there's the weird idea that the US thinks we are supplying the AntiChrist. Huh??? The AntiChrist will be of European or Middle Eastern decent, most likely. He will rule the world with a one world government.
The AntiChrist will not go out looking for people to "chip" or whatever.....people will be required to go to a destination to "receive" the mark. If they do not, they will not be able to buy or sell. When they attempt to buy or sell, that's when they will be found out. They will be given a choice.....take the mark or die.
There will be those in remote places who will manage to be self-sufficient for a time, but not long. The AntiChrist will have control of the world's food supply, and there will be earthquakes, plagues, famines, droughts, and destruction like has never been seen by mankind before. That's why it's called the tribulation.
Accept it or reject it, doesn't matter. It's still going to happen.
The Bible says that there would be more unbelief and sin, so that's not surprising. It also says there will be more falling away to false doctrines, teachings and false teachers. The whole "itching ears" thing.
...that's what I mean. You mentioned that "dispensational teaching" has only come about within the last two centuries. I'm just trying to tie this statement together with the prophecies in the Bible of a falling away from sound doctrine, "itching ears" etc.
To clarify my question (I'm poor at that) ...
In one sentence you say that false teaching is rampant, people are falling away from the truth in these last days. Then in another sentence you say that in the last two centuries there has been renewed clarity in Biblical prophecy that was not there for hundreds of years.
...that's what I mean. You mentioned that "dispensational teaching" has only come about within the last two centuries. I'm just trying to tie this statement together with the prophecies in the Bible of a falling away from sound doctrine, "itching ears" etc.
To clarify my question (I'm poor at that) ...
In one sentence you say that false teaching is rampant, people are falling away from the truth in these last days. Then in another sentence you say that in the last two centuries there has been renewed clarity in Biblical prophecy that was not there for hundreds of years.
Ironic, isn't it?
I don't see any irony here It's a statement that is true. But the falling away is also true. Wouldn't it make sense that the saints would come to understand more about prophecy to be able to warn properly, and then still have the falling away of the weak who can't handle the confusion that Satan is causing, like the Bible says would happen?
The strong become stronger, the weak become weaker?
I don't see any irony here It's a statement that is true. But the falling away is also true. Wouldn't it make sense that the saints would come to understand more about prophecy to be able to warn properly, and then still have the falling away of the weak who can't handle the confusion that Satan is causing, like the Bible says would happen?
The strong become stronger, the weak become weaker?
Regarding your statement about the saints understanding more: What people need to hear, live and believe in order to be equipped for the future is just the plain, old-fashioned gospel story. Many churches across the land are preaching it, but is it being lived? Is true doctrine being practiced? If clear teaching in the Bible is being ignored, if the abundant Christian life isn't being lived in purity and without hypocrisy, I would be extremely hesitant to say that Biblical prophecy is suddenly being understood in clarity.
Look at "end-time prophets" today, selling their books, videos, etc. How does the rest of their life line up? Is it a full, abundant all-consuming humble walk with God, or does it speak of "the itching of the ears"? What is the impression you get when you watch someone like this on TV? Something that stirs you up, gets you going, appeals to your intellect, or something that speaks softly to your heart and encourages you on the humble way in self-denial, pointing to Christ? Do you see Christ or the speaker?
Regarding your statement about the saints understanding more: What people need to hear, live and believe in order to be equipped for the future is just the plain, old-fashioned gospel story. Many churches across the land are preaching it, but is it being lived? Is true doctrine being practiced? If clear teaching in the Bible is being ignored, if the abundant Christian life isn't being lived in purity and without hypocrisy, I would be extremely hesitant to say that Biblical prophecy is suddenly being understood in clarity.
I agree about people hearing the gospel and living it. Couldn't agree more. And that's exactly what equips us for the future, no matter what it holds. But, when people are not listening and are turning away with fierceness and full of hate, don't you think that warning of the impending doom is wise also? It's not our job as Christians to dwell on whether or not someone is living it, that it their own personal responsibility and walk with Christ. But it is our job as Christians to make sure they know what they are refusing to believe.
Quote:
Look at "end-time prophets" today, selling their books, videos, etc. How does the rest of their life line up? Is it a full, abundant all-consuming humble walk with God, or does it speak of "the itching of the ears"? What is the impression you get when you watch someone like this on TV? Something that stirs you up, gets you going, appeals to your intellect, or something that speaks softly to your heart and encourages you on the humble way in self-denial, pointing to Christ? Do you see Christ or the speaker?
Right, but once again not for us to judge. Are these books and videos helping people, and do they have a choice as to whether or not they want to purchase them? I see nothing wrong with it, but I DO NOT like televangelists and their constant pleas for money. That's wrong. If these people are wrong in what they are doing, they will be punished by God for it, rest assured.
I only know what my abilities are, and my limitations. I would never become a televangelist, for fear of losing my salvation. Maybe some can do that without falling victim to the love of money and power, I don't know. I do know that many have been led to Christ through televangelism, so I don't think it's all bad.
That's why we are warned in the Bible to be on guard against false teachers and teachings. Proceed with caution, and do not get caught up in anything except God's Word.......that's my philosophy.
Although I respect the opinion of others, I can also respectfully disagree.
It will be a literal mark, which is to be received by all.....after the rapture of the church.
Those left behind after the rapture will have the most important decision of their lives to make.........to take this mark to be able to buy food and necessities to live a little while longer, or not take the mark and die a martyr for Christ and live eternally with Him. Either way we are all going to die a physical death.
It's my job as a Christian to warn people of what's going to happen. And it will be happening sooner than anyone wants to believe.
If they don't listen before the rapture, maybe they will remember what was said by Christians trying to warn them of the things to come and will grasp that second chance to accept Christ during the tribulation. If they don't die before they have a chance. Nothing is guaranteed in this life. But we are guaranteed an eternal, everlasting, peaceful life with God. All people have to do is accept Him. Pretty simple.
As with the OSAS teaching I was also taught about the pre-trib rapture and never once saw it in reading God's word. I was always the lone sheep
Can you give me one verse to prove a pre-trib rapture? It is supposedley a "secret" sshhh don't tell anyone, oops everyone already knows lol.
He said He is returning at the last trumpet, go to Revelation and look up the last trumpet and there you have it. Simple simple.
As with the OSAS teaching I was also taught about the pre-trib rapture and never once saw it in reading God's word. I was always the lone sheep
Can you give me one verse to prove a pre-trib rapture? It is supposedley a "secret" sshhh don't tell anyone, oops everyone already knows lol.
He said He is returning at the last trumpet, go to Revelation and look up the last trumpet and there you have it. Simple simple.
No, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible, but the reference is there to being "caught up":
1 Thessalonians 4:17
"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (after the physical bodies of the already dead in Christ are raised to be transformed with their spiritual bodies, who will be coming with Christ) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
This is the only place in the Bible where the rapture of the saints is clearly referred to.
And it's not a secret. I would shout it from the rooftops, if I were able!
I was watching my favorite theologians yesterday, and they pointed out another place in scripture that eludes to the rapture. Unfortunately, I did not catch where the scripture is located, and the podcast from yesterday is not on their website yet. I have put a link to their site below. They can explain it better than I can anyway. Read what they have to say about the eclipses and Jewish Holy Days....I think it's fascinating.
Prophecy In The News (http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/index.asp - broken link)
Oh yeah, one more thing. The 2nd coming and the rapture are two seperate events. That explains what you said about the last trumpet.
Last edited by Ilene Wright; 07-23-2008 at 03:57 PM..
Reason: Left out
I think we as Christians tend to loose focus on the true issue at hand. We as humans are in need of spiritual life. Something that only Christ Jesus could ever provide. As “Dayofthe Lord” very eloquently stated, there is no other command necessary other than belief in Jesus Christ.
For whatever reason however, we tend to over complicate the matter by adding our own earthly point of views and self righteous agendas.
It does not matter to me whether the earth is 7000 years old or 7 billion. I try not to overwhelm myself with things I can’t control such as other peoples perspectives on how the world will end. The revelations were written many centuries ago through the divine intervention of God given to men to speak to world of things to come. Maybe they were given signs or visions of things to come and they wrote them down the best way they knew how. How do you think people of the ancient world would describe modern marvels such as a cell phone, a computer, a military tank or a submarine?
I don’t know when the world will end, or from where the “anti-christ” will come from and how his mark will be truly placed. What I do know and believe is that all this is irrelevant if you believe in Christ Jesus and for what he stands for and for who he is.
Let’s say hypothetically people are right by what the “mark” may be. Let’s say a chip is what will mark those as having the sign of the beast. Even if you know for a fact, what can you do about what God has already planned for this world?
Believing in Christ may not give you mystical holy powers or make you the perfect person. But it will make you perfect (righteous through grace) in the eyes of the one who truly matters….God the Almighty
Last edited by Stardust2900; 07-23-2008 at 05:33 PM..
Reason: Misc
I think we as Christians tend to loose focus on the true issue at hand. We as humans are in need of spiritual life. Something that only Christ Jesus could ever provide. As “Dayofthe Lord” very eloquently stated, there is no other command necessary other than belief in Jesus Christ.
For whatever reason however, we tend to over complicate the matter by adding our own earthly point of views and self righteous agendas.
It does not matter to me whether the earth is 7000 years old or 7 billion. I try not to overwhelm myself with things I can’t control such as other peoples perspectives on how the world will end. The revelations were written many centuries ago through the divine intervention of God given to men to speak to world of things to come. Maybe they were given signs or visions of things to come and they wrote them down the best way they knew how. How do you think people of the ancient world would describe modern marvels such as a cell phone, a computer, a military tank or a submarine?
I don’t know when the world will end, or from where the “anti-christ” will come from and how his mark will be truly placed. What I do know and believe is that all this is irrelevant if you believe in Christ Jesus and for what he stands for and for who he is.
Let’s say hypothetically people are right by what the “mark” may be. Let’s say a chip is what will mark those as having the sign of the beast. Even if you know for a fact, what can you do about what God has already planned for this world?
Believing in Christ may not give you mystical holy powers or make you the perfect person. But it will make you perfect (righteous through grace) in the eyes of the one who truly matters….God the Almighty
Right on, Stardust....that's been my point all along. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ by faith, repentance of our sins, and living a Godly life.
If we do these things, we are secure in our salvation and are prepared for whatever may come.
However, I love to talk about the Bible and prophecies. Plus, not many are listening to the simplicity of the gospel. They need proof, or they need to talk about it in more detail in order to believe. I certainly can't provide proof of God's exitance, but I can point of the truth of the Word of God by the many, many prophecies that have already been fulfilled.
And with so many not believing and in danger of eternal damnation, it's more important than ever to talk about the prophecies of Revelation and end times, because we are living it. I don't necessarily think it will change their minds now, but the things we have talked about will be remembered after the rapture by many, and they will know what's happening hopefully. The Bible says that there will be those during the tribulation who will become martyrs for Christ. I want to be partly responsible for even one of those martyrs.
The fire of passion was put in me by the Holy Spirit to do this....I have no control over it!!!! And I understand the many responses that I see like yours saying "why bother"? Hopefully, I just explained why.
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The AntiChrist will be of European or Middle Eastern decent, most likely. He will rule the world with a one world government. 
Nothing is guaranteed in this life. But we are guaranteed an eternal, everlasting, peaceful life with God. All people have to do is accept Him. Pretty simple.
