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I agree with Shadowarrior about this after seeking the Lord on whether we are still to keep the sabbath as our Holy Day. Sunday is a pagan day to worship the sun god, it is not the sabbath.
Don't you see protestants, you are still following the Catholic church in which you supposedly left. They change all the pagan days and try to turn them into God's days, it's straight from satan and many are decieved. He is declaring, "come out of her my people".
Jesus came to fullfill the law not destroy it. Many Christians will say, well the law was nailed to the cross with him, well if that was the case his followers would not have kept observing it after He was crucified, and the Bible clearly teaches that they did observe the sabbath afterwards.
Common sense goes a long way regarding what work to do. From what I understand we are to obstain from our regular weekly laborious work that we do the other six days, such as your regular job. It is about spending time with the Lord and your family not purposely setting out to get work done. Jesus gave examples of what if's that the pharisees were asking about and this reminds me of the same. If an emergency comes up, take care of it.
And for the curious, I am a follower of Christ and take His word literally. I am not a SDA or Messianic believer, just His servant who seeks His will.
Shadow, I just can't help sense tension in your posts and even disdain (opposite of love for your fellow posters) and that may be totally judgemental on my part (I apologize) - and, I've found that if something is upsetting to you to some degree, then you might want to stop and ask the Lord what He's trying to show you. -
but truly under the new convenant, it's about Love, and Mercy, and Grace. And, those, should drive you to having the desire to obeying the law (yet, in and of ourselves, God -Elohim,Yahweh - proved, before CHrist came and died and rose again, that we humans are incapable of keeping the law. That's why He sent His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ to save us from the Law and it's demands and consequences. The law was to point out our need for a savior. And, through our Savior's love, unconditional at that, it draws us back to wanting in our own hearts to keep it. But, of course, we are human and imperfect and fail.
Shadow, I'm not making digs at you, in any way. Infact, my heart broke when you said that you take a logical approach to scripture - DON'T ! Take a heartfelt, spiritual approach (w/o your head and flesh getting in the way), while asking for the holy Spirit to show you the Father's Heart. For, Yahweh, in my humble experience, has been anything but a condemner, a judge, a divider. He has been my Father in Heaven who loves me and accepts me as I am, all the while wooing me back to Him and what He created me for - to Love Him and Worship Him... everyday, with all my strength and my whole being - not just on Sundays, or Saturdays. And, the funny part.... He even meets with me while I'm washing dishes and doing lawn work, and feeding a child and cooking a meal. He's even been there, with me while I scrubbed the toilet!!!
LEt your life be sweet worship to Him, not just one day out of the week.
In my humble opinion....I'm sure it grieves the Heart of THE Father when so many rules, religion, traditions and mandates get in the way of an intimate relationship with Him.
Again, this is written with me whole heart and not out of animosity or any ill-intent.
Alpha - nice post - couldn't rep ya - even after I've spread the love! ha!
From an historical standpoint, Constantine I has nothing to do with the Sunday services, which existed a couple of centuries before he did. In most places by the second century, Saturday was kept as the Sabbath, and Sunday as the celebration of the Resurrection. What Constantine did do was make Sunday a day off for non-farm workers.
So, Constantine didn't institute Sunday worship, but he did institute Sunday blue laws.
Also, please read some of the Apostle Paul's epistles. They shed great light on the division of Law and Gospel.
What if you have a 6 month old baby.. are you not supposed to feed it, change its diapers etc? let me tell you.. thats work.
Are you supposed to just sit around scratching ourselves watching TV? How will we eat? It takes work to get up and make myself a sandwich.. am I not supposed to eat either?
Please qualify "work".
See your local rabbi for what qualifies as "work" regarding the Sabbath.
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulcher, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Jesus was resurrected on the first day of the week. And the disciples clearly came together to worship on the first day of the week.
Roman or Jewish calender Sunday as we know it now is the first day of the week.
What if you have a 6 month old baby.. are you not supposed to feed it, change its diapers etc? let me tell you.. thats work.
Are you supposed to just sit around scratching ourselves watching TV? How will we eat? It takes work to get up and make myself a sandwich.. am I not supposed to eat either?
Please qualify "work".
Another clue that MEN wrote the Bible. Sorry, but a lot of the "don't work" stuff there seems to assume that food and clean clothing will just appear. It doesn't. Yes, you may call me "Martha."
Yahweh established the 7th day as the sabbath since the beginning of the world. It was a Sabbath that would exist forever. Gen 2:3 "And Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which Elohim in creating had made." Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a SIGN between Me and you throughout your generations, THAT YOU MAY KNOW that I am Elohim who sanctifies you'" (Exodus 31:13). "Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a PERPETUAL covenant. It is a SIGN between Me and the children of Israel FOREVER, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed" (v. 16-17). "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Rev 12:17). "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." (Rev 14:12)
10“So I took them out of the land of Mitsrayim, and I brought them into the wilderness. 11 “And I gave them My laws and showed them My right-rulings, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them.’ 12“And I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign f between them and Me, to know that I am HWHY who sets them apart. 13“But the house of Yisra’Ãl rebelled against Me in the wilderness. They did not walk in My laws, and they rejected My right-rulings, which, if a man does, he shall live by them. And they greatly profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My wrath on them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14“But I acted for My Name’s sake, not to profane it before the gentiles, before whose eyes I had brought them out. 15“And I Myself also lifted My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, not to bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, the splendour of all lands, 16because they rejected My right-rulings and did not walk in My laws, and they profaned My Sabbaths. For their heart went after their idols. 17“And My eye pardoned them, from destroying them. And I did not make an end of them in the wilderness. 18“And I said to their children in the wilderness, ‘Do not walk in the laws of your fathers, nor observe their rulings, nor defile yourselves with their idols. 19‘I am HWHY your Elohim. Walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and do them. 20‘And set apart My Sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between Me and you, to know that I am HWHY your Elohim.’ 21“But the children rebelled against Me. They did not walk in My laws, and My right-rulings they did not guard to do them, which, if a man does, he shall live by them. They profaned My Sabbaths, so I resolved to pour out My wrath on them to complete My displeasure against them in the wilderness. 22“But I held back My hand and acted for My Name’s sake, not to profane it before the eyes of the gentiles, before whose eyes I had brought them out. 23“Also, I Myself lifted My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, to scatter them among the gentiles and disperse them throughout the lands, 24because they had not done My rightrulings, and they rejected My laws, and they profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were on their fathers’ idols. (Ezk 20 10:24)
It has never been disputed by religious scholars that Saturday is the 7th day. This is the ONLY day that He sanctified as the Sabbath. And, there is nothing in Scripture that authorizes changing the Sabbath to Sunday (Day of the Sun - the day the pagans worshiped the sun god). The Roman Catholic Church has always admitted this, stating that it was done on their own authority.
Yes, the Christians did keep the sabbath Acts 18 1-11, Acts 17:2, 1 Cor 11:1. It was changed by the Papacy on it's own authority.
The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday. — Catholic Mirror, official organ of Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.
The observance of Sunday by the protestants is an homage they pay in spite of themselves to the authority of the [Catholic] Church. — Mgr. Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, Boston: Patrick Donahoe, 1868, page 225.
“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” — Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.
The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.” — father T. Enright, C.S.S.R. of the RedemptoralCollege, Kansas City, in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, February 18, 1884, printed in History of the Sabbath, p. 802.
No, Yeshua did NOT break the Sabbath "I have KEPT My Father's commandments" (John 15:10). How could Yeshua have been the only perfect man if He had broken the Commandments? Yes, he was accused of it many times by the Pharisees.
It is interesting to see how this debate plays out and a Seventh-day Adventist did not instigate it. I must add a couple of things Jesus said Himself. He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill and anyone who teaches someone to break the law will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. Also, James said that whoever breaks one commandment breaks them all. And some guy name Paul stated, should we make void the law because of faith, God forbid. And let's not forget that Jesus came to save us from sin and sin the transgression of the law. One other thing, I need some scriptural references that states that the Ten Commandments are Moses' law or that he wrote them and not God. Thanks in advance. God Bless.
Why is it that people who claim that they love Yahweh (His name is not God - that is merely a title) yet fail to obey His commandments. There are many that are rationalized away, but I will limit this discussion to only the 4th Commandment to keep the Sabbath Holy.
Guard the Sabbath day, to set it apart, as HWHY your Elohim commanded you. 13‘Six days you labour, and shall do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a Sabbath of HWHY your Elohim. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, so that your male servant and your female servant rest as you do. 15‘And you shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Mitsrayim, and that HWHY your Elohim brought you out from there by a strong hand and by an outstretched arm. Therefore HWHY your Elohim commanded you to observe the Sabbath
I will not argue that Sunday is NOT the Sabbth, Saturday is. Instead I will discuss the the rest of the commandment, that we, are families, our servants, our live stock or any foreigner within our gates (guests) shall do no work. Sunday is a traditional day for church going people to spend the day after church doing yard work, cleaning house, going to restaurants, playing sports or other physical activities. What happens when you go to a restaurant, a movie, ballgame etc? There are people there to serve you, the waitress, the hot dog vendor etc. They are you servants. You are commanded that they shall not work. Doing yard work or washing the car is work. Many Christians work their regular jobs that day. Some Jews believe that even turning on a light switch is work, and hire someone to do this for them on the Sabbath. By doing this, they are violating the Sabbath in that their servant is doing tasks for them. The Sabbath is to be a day of rest and communion with our Creator, not a day to pursue our pleasures or earn money.
While the Israelites were wandering for 40 years in the wilderness, they did not work on the Sabbath, not even cooking. They gathered enough manna on Friday for two days. Those who did go seeking manna on the Sabbath found none.
John 14:15 If you love Me, you shall guard My
commands. The converse is that if you do not love Him, you will not obey His commandments.
Who do you serve, Elohim or mammon?
I serve Elohim my creator
YHWH, my God in the Trinity
The Father-
The Son
The Holy Spirit
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Sorry, but a lot of the "don't work" stuff there seems to assume that food and clean clothing will just appear. It doesn't. Yes, you may call me "Martha."
