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Old 09-01-2022, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by 1689dave View Post
Another sure way to spot Antichrist in your church, or in your beliefs is the Catholic doctrine of Free Will. The debate between Martin Luther in his book Bondage of the Will, and the Catholic Erasmus shows this. Free Will teaches that people become their own savior by performing works of righteousness. This would include the use of the sacraments. Or as in Evangelical style churches, paying obedience to Christ’s teachings as the means of salvation.

But in view of this Luther said in summary, it isn’t until a person knows that salvation is beyond their own will and powers that they move into the position where salvation happens. From this position of helplessness and only then will they look beyond themselves and trust in Christ to save them. As long as they think they can perform a work of the will that will save them, they will trust in that instead of Christ as being their only hope of salvation. So Antichrist shines forth everywhere in Churches that teach free will salvation. Taken from The Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that Luther still accepted 2 of the 7 sacraments.
Baptism and the Eucharist.
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Old 09-01-2022, 08:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that Luther still accepted 2 of the 7 sacraments.
Baptism and the Eucharist.
I don't know. But the issue was the false doctrine of Antichrist we call Free Will.
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Old 09-01-2022, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by 1689dave View Post
I don't know. But the issue was the false doctrine of Antichrist we call Free Will.
I don't understand.

Which " doctrine " do you maintain as false?
Free will, anti christ?
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Old 09-01-2022, 08:47 AM
 
Location: minnesota
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Originally Posted by 1689dave View Post
I don't know. But the issue was the false doctrine of Antichrist we call Free Will.
You don't believe in free will? I don't either.
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Old 09-01-2022, 08:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
I don't understand.

Which " doctrine " do you maintain as false?
Free will, anti christ?
Free Will is a false doctrine. A product of the Antichrist according to Luther and the Reformers, not to mention others. It's all spelled out if you read my brief article. Plus I have more astonishing proof on the way.
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Old 09-01-2022, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by 1689dave View Post
Free Will is a false doctrine. A product of the Antichrist according to Luther and the Reformers, not to mention others. It's all spelled out if you read my brief article. Plus I have more astonishing proof on the way.
I should point out that the Lutheran and Catholic Church addressed sola fide as follows:

“Together we confess: by grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping us and calling us to good works.”
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Old 09-01-2022, 11:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
I should point out that the Lutheran and Catholic Church addressed sola fide as follows:

“Together we confess: by grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping us and calling us to good works.”
What happens if do not belong to their church and partake of the sacraments? What makes you think their salvation scheme is true when scripture never mentions it? I already proved how the Eucharist makes the Papacy the Antichrist.
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Old 09-01-2022, 11:50 AM
 
Location: TEXAS
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Originally Posted by 1689dave View Post
Free Will teaches that people become their own savior by performing works of righteousness. This would include the use of the sacraments. Or as in Evangelical style churches, paying obedience to Christ’s teachings as the means of salvation.
Nonsense!
Love has no value if it is only given by coercion or seeking rewards - only by Freewill, expecting nothing back in return it is Genuine - a Love that Christ, and the Father, will recognize.
Seems you know nothing about this. But it's not too late - you can learn.
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Old 09-01-2022, 11:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
Nonsense!
Love has no value if it is only given by coercion or seeking rewards - only by Freewill, expecting nothing back in return it is Genuine - a Love that Christ, and the Father, will recognize.
Seems you know nothing about this. But it's not too late - you can learn.
Luther also said where do you find free will in this?

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (KJV 1900)

This is all you have to work with unless born again.
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Old 09-01-2022, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by 1689dave View Post
What happens if do not belong to their church and partake of the sacraments? What makes you think their salvation scheme is true when scripture never mentions it? I already proved how the Eucharist makes the Papacy the Antichrist.
You have proved nothing to those who don't already share your doctrine.

Salvation is through Christ. I'm unaware of a Christian who does not believe that.

You just choose different hoops to jump through.
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