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How dare you accuse a Christian of not being saved?! Who are you to decide where his relationship stands with the Lord??
Because he views eschatology differently?????
Salvation is not given because of what one believes about the end times.
Jackie,
In the light of the OP on "Has Christ already returned" if you have read all of the posts, the position of "full" preterism is yes I can dare to compare it with the truth of the Bible.
Compare Preterism with Jesus' words:
Mark 13:20-22 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
People who claim that Jesus came already, Jesus calls them false Christs and false prophets....not I.
When he says that there is no physicall resurrection from the dead, that is not a prophecy issue or an eschatology difference. God says your faith is futile.....
1 Corinthians 15:17 NIV
And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
if you don't like NIV here is the KJV....
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
There is no salvation in a futile (vain) faith. The belief of the physical resurrection of Christ is not optional for salvation. Remember, Jesus claim he was going to raise himself from the dead (physically), the Jewish leaders had a guard put around the tomb, Paul was put on trial for preaching the physical resurrection from the dead. There are 40 verses in KJV, 45 in the NIV speaking about the resurrection.. non-essential Christian doctrine.....not.
Jackie,
In the light of the OP on "Has Christ already returned" if you have read all of the posts, the position of "full" preterism is yes I can dare to compare it with the truth of the Bible.
Compare Preterism with Jesus' words:
Mark 13:20-22 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
People who claim that Jesus came already, Jesus calls them false Christs and false prophets....not I.
When he says that there is no physicall resurrection from the dead, that is not a prophecy issue or an eschatology difference. God says your faith is futile.....
1 Corinthians 15:17 NIV
And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
if you don't like NIV here is the KJV....
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
There is no salvation in a futile (vain) faith. The belief of the physical resurrection of Christ is not optional for salvation. Remember, Jesus claim he was going to raise himself from the dead (physically), the Jewish leaders had a guard put around the tomb, Paul was put on trial for preaching the physical resurrection from the dead. There are 40 verses in KJV, 45 in the NIV speaking about the resurrection.. non-essential Christian doctrine.....not.
IF you are going to critique a position, do it knowledgeably. NO preterist denies that Jesus rose from the dead. That is a blatant and false representation.
Furthermore, please stop taking verses out of context. What is the context of Mark 13, twin.spin? Do you ever take the time to consider it. It is a serious, serious matter to use the words of our Lord against people He never intended to use them against. I again caution you, twin.spin, about this misuse and your unauthoritative condemnation of others as though you stand in the place of God!
Jesus was addressing His words to THOSE disciples right there in front of them. But you ignore that. You rip it out of its context and then fling it at your fellow believers. That is shameful and dangerous.
Jesus was speaking of the false teachers of THAT day which His disciples would encounter. THEY were not to be deceived by those first-century, pre-A.D. 70 false teachers and false christs. THEY were to take to heed and that is why He told THEM beforehand. THAT IS THE CONTEXT. Does anyone care about context anymore. I am beyond weary of the shameful misuse of God's Word. Let's be true students of the Bible, shall we?
Read verse 30--"Assuredly, I say to YOU [those same disciples], THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL THESE THINGS take place." That includes the false christs and the false teachers of THAT generation.
And again, preterism does NOT NOT NOT deny the resurrection. We will be raised bodily--not in the bodies of flesh and blood which cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven, but in real, resurrection bodies fitted for heaven. What don't you understand about that, twin.spin, that you insist on continuing to tell falsehoods about preterism. Again, IF you are going to critique a position, be sure first that you understand it!
Do you presume that YOUR position is beyond being analyzed by the Scriptures?
He is Lord, He is Lord!
He has risen from the dead
And He is lord!
Every knee shall bow,
Every tongue confess,
That Jesus Christ is Lord!
Glory To Our Soon Coming King!!
SOON coming? What does "soon" mean, Betsey Lane? Is that "soon" in the sense that Jesus used it and the disciples used it (according to futurists, anyway)? In other words, they said soon but they really meant thousands of years later (according to you and other futurists).
According to your understanding of the word "soon," are you saying that you believe Jesus is coming later, much, much later--perhaps another two thousand years? Or are we to actually take you are your word and accept the fact that you say what you mean and mean what you say?
Jackie,
In the light of the OP on "Has Christ already returned" if you have read all of the posts, the position of "full" preterism is yes I can dare to compare it with the truth of the Bible.
Compare Preterism with Jesus' words:
Mark 13:20-22 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
People who claim that Jesus came already, Jesus calls them false Christs and false prophets....not I.
When he says that there is no physicall resurrection from the dead, that is not a prophecy issue or an eschatology difference. God says your faith is futile.....
1 Corinthians 15:17 NIV
And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
if you don't like NIV here is the KJV....
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
There is no salvation in a futile (vain) faith. The belief of the physical resurrection of Christ is not optional for salvation. Remember, Jesus claim he was going to raise himself from the dead (physically), the Jewish leaders had a guard put around the tomb, Paul was put on trial for preaching the physical resurrection from the dead. There are 40 verses in KJV, 45 in the NIV speaking about the resurrection.. non-essential Christian doctrine.....not.
Preterists are not denying Christ's resurrection!
Yes, the resurrection is indeed essential. That's not the point. It's the second coming of Christ that Christians have different views on.
Yes, the resurrection is indeed essential. That's not the point. It's the second coming of Christ that Christians have different views on.
Am I missing something here?
When Preterist was asked if his body would be reunited with his soul at some point, his response was that his body would never, ever be reunited.
Paul in Gods word says that if you claim that you are a Christian and don't believe that you will be physically resurrected, then ultimately you are denying that Christ rose physically from the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:13-19
If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men
Then end result is a vain faith. Preterism is to be pitied amoung all men
IF you are going to critique a position, do it knowledgeably. NO preterist denies that Jesus rose from the dead. That is a blatant and false representation.
Furthermore, please stop taking verses out of context. What is the context of Mark 13, twin.spin? Do you ever take the time to consider it. It is a serious, serious matter to use the words of our Lord against people He never intended to use them against. I again caution you, twin.spin, about this misuse and your unauthoritative condemnation of others as though you stand in the place of God!
Jesus was addressing His words to THOSE disciples right there in front of them. But you ignore that. You rip it out of its context and then fling it at your fellow believers. That is shameful and dangerous.
Jesus was speaking of the false teachers of THAT day which His disciples would encounter. THEY were not to be deceived by those first-century, pre-A.D. 70 false teachers and false christs. THEY were to take to heed and that is why He told THEM beforehand. THAT IS THE CONTEXT. Does anyone care about context anymore. I am beyond weary of the shameful misuse of God's Word. Let's be true students of the Bible, shall we?
Read verse 30--"Assuredly, I say to YOU [those same disciples], THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL THESE THINGS take place." That includes the false christs and the false teachers of THAT generation.
And again, preterism does NOT NOT NOT deny the resurrection. We will be raised bodily--not in the bodies of flesh and blood which cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven, but in real, resurrection bodies fitted for heaven. What don't you understand about that, twin.spin, that you insist on continuing to tell falsehoods about preterism. Again, IF you are going to critique a position, be sure first that you understand it!
Do you presume that YOUR position is beyond being analyzed by the Scriptures?
Preterist
Jesus rose from the dead with flesh and bones (blood)
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Bodies sir, will be "popping" [as you call it] out of their graves just as my risen Lord. Glorified yes, but still in my flesh, with these eyes and not another.
You do not quailify to analyze anything scripturally when you are in error. I will not bother you with the truth anymore. I leave you to your eternal fate. I hope for your sake that I'm wrong. I do not wish anybody eternal damnation. But if you reject me or others like me, you are rejecting the one who sent us, namely Jesus.
Still, I consider you my neighbor and would help you, not walk by.
Twin
Jesus rose from the dead with flesh and bones (blood)
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Bodies sir, will be "popping" [as you call it] out of their graves just as my risen Lord. Glorified yes, but still in my flesh, with these eyes and not another.
You do not quailify to analyze anything scripturally when you are in error. I will not bother you with the truth anymore. I leave you to your eternal fate. I hope for your sake that I'm wrong. I do not wish anybody eternal damnation. But if you reject me or others like me, you are rejecting the one who sent us, namely Jesus.
Still, I consider you my neighbor and would help you, not walk by.
Twin
There is proof of that in the scriptures. When Jesus rose from the grave, there were many others that rose from their graves and were seen walking about Jerusalem.
SOON coming? What does "soon" mean, Betsey Lane? Is that "soon" in the sense that Jesus used it and the disciples used it (according to futurists, anyway)? In other words, they said soon but they really meant thousands of years later (according to you and other futurists).
According to your understanding of the word "soon," are you saying that you believe Jesus is coming later, much, much later--perhaps another two thousand years? Or are we to actually take you are your word and accept the fact that you say what you mean and mean what you say?
Just asking.
Preterist
12. Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the End.
14. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murders, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16. I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches, I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
17. The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
18. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
20. He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am Coming Soon." Amen. Come. Lord Jesus. 21. The grace of the lord Jesus be with God's people.
Amen.
(NIV) Rev. 22, 12-21
Not your soon, not "my" soon; soon according to Jesus Christ! In The Lord's timing. Oh trust the Lord, you will know when the Lord's time is right! Not a minute or second before; because every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord of All!
Now, there is a way that you can tell the season that we are living in. Want to know what it is? First of all you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this coming he promised?" And you want to know what the scoffers will reply with? "He came already; sorry, you somehow missed Him."
Hallelujah to our soon coming King!!!!!!! Glory to the Most High!!!!!! Hold fast brother's and sister's in Christ Jesus. Hold on to the promise of our Lord Jesus! He is not done with us yet. He is not slow in keeping His promise. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. The choice is all yours. Come while there's still time. It's not too late. He's waiting for one more............and one more..................
12. Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the End.
14. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murders, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16. I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches, I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
17. The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
18. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
20. He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am Coming Soon." Amen. Come. Lord Jesus. 21. The grace of the lord Jesus be with God's people.
Amen.
(NIV) Rev. 22, 12-21
Not your soon, not "my" soon; soon according to Jesus Christ! In The Lord's timing. Oh trust the Lord, you will know when the Lord's time is right! Not a minute or second before; because every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord of All!
Now, there is a way that you can tell the season that we are living in. Want to know what it is? First of all you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this coming he promised?" And you want to know what the scoffers will reply with? "He came already; sorry, you somehow missed Him."
Hallelujah to our soon coming King!!!!!!! Glory to the Most High!!!!!! Hold fast brother's and sister's in Christ Jesus. Hold on to the promise of our Lord Jesus! He is not done with us yet. He is not slow in keeping His promise. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. The choice is all yours. Come while there's still time. It's not too late. He's waiting for one more............and one more..................
Your sister in Christ Jesus
Another great post Betsey! I agree with you, He is coming again and what a glorious day that will be!
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