Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
God does not ignore anyone..His spirit works for, in or about all of us..It is not a christian only thing..The spirit nudges, urges, and may even aggravate some in order to be recognized, once recognized, it is your best friend, confidant and teacher.
The Holy Spirit is active and tugging at the hearts of all. Troop's, June's, mine, freedom's....all of us.
We have to invite the Counselor in, He does not invade.
So the choice of having the Holy Spirit reside in us is the decision of all humans. His activity is not an option.
I believe the Holy Spirit is what caused Troop's friend to talk to him at work. I believe the Holy Spirit is what guides many of June's posts. I believe the Holy Spirit is active in the world in too many facets to comprehend.
You totally lost me on this one...Too many contradictions.
and troop, nice to see you on, I thought you were on vacation or something cause had not seen you around.
june, I belive what Alpha is saying is that from a Christian view:
God is God. He is our Lord, creator and Savior. Many can deny Him, curse Him, choose to not believe in Him, etc...but He is still our creator, savior and Lord.
The Holy Spirit is active and tugging at the hearts of all. Troop's, June's, mine, freedom's....all of us.
We have to invite the Counselor in, He does not invade.
So the choice of having the Holy Spirit reside in us is the decision of all humans. His activity is not an option.
I believe the Holy Spirit is what caused Troop's friend to talk to him at work. I believe the Holy Spirit is what guides many of June's posts. I believe the Holy Spirit is active in the world in too many facets to comprehend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th
You totally lost me on this one...Too many contradictions.
Or perhaps I'm the one "contradicting."
OK, I'm going to put my thoughts out there. These are, of course, non-biblical, and only heart-felt.
My question was, "does the Holy Spirit reside in the non-believer?"
Oh, and June, as I read Alpha's post, what I hear is, "the Holy Spirit works with you, but not in you."
These are my thoughts, and bare with me, they are just flowing out of my head...
The Blessed Trinity: God the Father, Jesus, Son of God, and Holy Spirit.
We are all God's children. He created us all, whether we accept that or not does not change the fact that we are His. Also, Jesus died for ALL of us. Again, believer or not, doesn't change the fact. Lastly, the Holy Spirit... I believe that the Holy Spirit does, in fact, reside in all of us. I'm trying to come up with some great analogy to show my point, but it's not there...
Everyone of us has a 6th sense, an intuition, an understanding that goes beyond common knowledge...a compassion for the hurt, whatever. I believe that these things are all gifts of the Holy Spirit. We can choose to deny God. It is God that gave us life. He gave us an amazing ability to "think" and He gave us free will. It is also this free will and ability to "think" that allows us to deny Jesus. OOhhh... we are all too smart for our own good. Sometimes the reality of something is so obvious and so "in our face" that we have to look beyond it. We can't see the trees for the forest. Or is it forest for the trees? Or maybe it is the symphony that we deny, even though we can't get the music out of our head. Then there is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives 'in' us. I imagine a baby being born; when this child enters into this world and takes his first gasp for breath, God breathes life and the Holy Spirit into this child.
OK, that's it, I'm trying to think beyond this and it's just not coming. I will continue to think on it and put it into words. I am sure that many of you (believer and non-believer, alike) are just shaking your heads thinking, "such a simple girl". But that's it. That's what I believe. Whether it be Troop, June, Montana...me...we are God's. He has given us the gift of life, the gift of the Holy Spirit. You might say that he has "branded" us with his love. Deny Him all you want, but you are His.
Whether it be Troop, June, Montana...me...we are God's. He has given us the gift of life, the gift of the Holy Spirit. You might say that he has "branded" us with his love. Deny Him all you want, but you are His.
Weather,
I can understand what you're saying and I can also understand what Alpha is saying. But, you know me, I'm a "prove it" kind of guy. Quite honestly, my impression of this is that it's unfalsifiable. That's the difference between something like President Bush and... well... God - aside from the fact that I wouldn't insult something I don't even believe in by making a brusque comparison to our current President.
The thing is that President Bush is a falsifiable entity. We can "prove" beyond a reasonable doubt that he exists. We can prove this because if the Secret Service would let us we could examine his DNA, his parents DNA, the electoral records, the voting records from the 2000 election (wait a second... maybe I am falsifying him ) and the 2004 election and along with a myriad of other things that prove to me that President Bush is indeed the President of the United States I can deal with that. I might not like it. I might not like him at all. I may completely agree with the t-shirt that Alpha mentioned but I also understand that he is indeed my President because he is also falsifiable as a "being".
A god or deity does not "exist" in the realm of the falsifiable, or should I say, in the capacity to be proven or disproven. So, therefore, while I can most certainly say with confidence that President Bush is my president with limited to no faith at all; I cannot do this with a God.
Could I make myself "believe" in God? I don't think so. I think I could play along with it. I think I could really act as if I did but I wouldn't REALLY believe. Because those same nagging issues would keep coming up in my mind and I wouldn't be able to ignore it.
Might I add also that I would not be happy if I found out that the Christian God existed (or just about any other deity). In fact, I would be miserable. I certainly wouldn't worship him or praise him. I may acknowledge that he was true (if it could be proven) but I still wouldn't go to church and I still wouldn't be happy about it. I'd feel deceived, tricked, and most of all imprisoned in some sort of celestial totalitarian state.
But, scorn of something that exists is not an excuse for inexistence. However, a lack of falsifiable evidence most certainly is. I don't like Bush. Quite honestly, I loathe the man. However, he does indeed exist whether I like it or not. So, no, my denial of the "Holy Spirit" does not reside from a loathing or hatred from it (even though I find him to be quite barbaric in many cases) but rather from a sheer lack of evidence of the falsifiable kind.
On the flip side, even if I thought the Christian God was nothing but a kindly spirit who took care of all of his children I still would not find that to be evidence for existence. Just because I want something to be true does not make it so either. Again, I go where the evidence goes.
So, here's my stance. I do not see evidence for the existence of any God. I do not feel it. I don't feel a nagging at my heart to try and believe. I don't think of how wonderful it would be if I believed and I don't think about how downright depressed I might be if I did. If there were scientific proof that God existed than I would stand up and tell you right now that I was wrong but I still wouldn't be happy about it. I really don't think for all the divine providence alleged to be at the hand of God that he should have such a hard time giving me one shred of scientific evidence to believe in him. I imagine he would have foreseen the day when people like myself would be around to bother about questions such as this and I find that to be quite miffing in and of itself. All I'm asking for is an empirically cited, peer-reviewed, scientific paper that the scientific community can all agree equals up to God. Until that is provided to me, I cannot believe. But, I'm also quite content with that.
P.S.- I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings if I sounded a little harsh. I know this is the Christian forum and I didn't want to come on here and "sound off" but I also wanted to make it clear where I was coming from.
Is it 3200 already? Man... No wonder I've got a case of carpal tunnel... Considering I also make some of the longest posts known to mankind, it's a surprise my arms haven't fallen clean off.
OK, I'm going to put my thoughts out there. These are, of course, non-biblical, and only heart-felt.
My question was, "does the Holy Spirit reside in the non-believer?"
Oh, and June, as I read Alpha's post, what I hear is, "the Holy Spirit works with you, but not in you."
These are my thoughts, and bare with me, they are just flowing out of my head...
The Blessed Trinity: God the Father, Jesus, Son of God, and Holy Spirit.
We are all God's children. He created us all, whether we accept that or not does not change the fact that we are His. Also, Jesus died for ALL of us. Again, believer or not, doesn't change the fact. Lastly, the Holy Spirit... I believe that the Holy Spirit does, in fact, reside in all of us. I'm trying to come up with some great analogy to show my point, but it's not there...
Everyone of us has a 6th sense, an intuition, an understanding that goes beyond common knowledge...a compassion for the hurt, whatever. I believe that these things are all gifts of the Holy Spirit. We can choose to deny God. It is God that gave us life. He gave us an amazing ability to "think" and He gave us free will. It is also this free will and ability to "think" that allows us to deny Jesus. OOhhh... we are all too smart for our own good. Sometimes the reality of something is so obvious and so "in our face" that we have to look beyond it. We can't see the trees for the forest. Or is it forest for the trees? Or maybe it is the symphony that we deny, even though we can't get the music out of our head. Then there is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives 'in' us. I imagine a baby being born; when this child enters into this world and takes his first gasp for breath, God breathes life and the Holy Spirit into this child.
OK, that's it, I'm trying to think beyond this and it's just not coming. I will continue to think on it and put it into words. I am sure that many of you (believer and non-believer, alike) are just shaking your heads thinking, "such a simple girl". But that's it. That's what I believe. Whether it be Troop, June, Montana...me...we are God's. He has given us the gift of life, the gift of the Holy Spirit. You might say that he has "branded" us with his love. Deny Him all you want, but you are His.
He did create us all, that's true and no doubt about that weather.
But read the first Chapter of the Gospel of John and you will see that we are not all His Children. Does that sound harsh? I hope not...it's biblical.
And I'm not saying 'simple girl', I love your post. The problem I have is that at this point I don't think it could be backed up scripturally...and that's a problem. As much as I'd love to say 'You're right!', I can't.
The bottom line is that Jesus Christ is THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life...and we all must do something with Jesus. Deny, Embrace, Ignore, or Despise....we must do something. And there are consequences for each decision regarding Him. I love June and Troop and you and every other poster on this forum. Some would say 'You can't love someone you don't know' and I say 'Yes, I can and do.'
God cared enough about each one of us to create us and the same Jesus that died for me died for everyone else here. I'd love for each person to embrace Him and call Him Lord but I have zero control over that. All I can do is be me. And I have to constantly keep myself in check that I don't become so PC that I forget that there is a Truth here that I must speak to.
That Truth is Jesus Christ.
I believe in Him.
I really, really do.
As much as I am convinced Troop and June are real without physically seeing them--I'm convinced Christ is too.
Now maybe the Holy Spirit does visit the inner workings of everyone....but setting up residence, I believe, is something He will not do without an invite.
He did create us all, that's true and no doubt about that weather.
But read the first Chapter of the Gospel of John and you will see that we are not all His Children. Does that sound harsh? I hope not...it's biblical.
And I'm not saying 'simple girl', I love your post. The problem I have is that at this point I don't think it could be backed up scripturally...and that's a problem. As much as I'd love to say 'You're right!', I can't.
The bottom line is that Jesus Christ is THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life...and we all must do something with Jesus. Deny, Embrace, Ignore, or Despise....we must do something. And there are consequences for each decision regarding Him. I love June and Troop and you and every other poster on this forum. Some would say 'You can't love someone you don't know' and I say 'Yes, I can and do.'
God cared enough about each one of us to create us and the same Jesus that died for me died for everyone else here. I'd love for each person to embrace Him and call Him Lord but I have zero control over that. All I can do is be me. And I have to constantly keep myself in check that I don't become so PC that I forget that there is a Truth here that I must speak to.
That Truth is Jesus Christ.
I believe in Him.
I really, really do.
As much as I am convinced Troop and June are real without physically seeing them--I'm convinced Christ is too.
Now maybe the Holy Spirit does visit the inner workings of everyone....but setting up residence, I believe, is something He will not do without an invite.
P.S.- I don't want to hurt any one's feelings if I sounded a little harsh. I know this is the Christian forum and I didn't want to come on here and "sound off" but I also wanted to make it clear where I was coming from.
Troop,
Thank you so much for your post. I will read it several time, I am sure, and reflect on it. I want to understand the heart of the non-believer (at least those that I have met here). Like Alpha, I have developed quite a fondness for so many people on this forum. I have never felt you to be unkind in any of my threads, so please, post away.
Alpha states that my view is "unbiblical". Well, that is certainly one huge difference between myself and so many Bible-based Christians on this forum. (no offense ever meant) I have been thinking about this...and I will pray that if it is God's will, I will begin to study the Bible. Perhaps I will begin with the Gospel of John. But I see my faith in God as simple and pure. I don't need to read the Bible to believe. I don't need to be able to quote scripture for you to know that I believe. I know that the Holy Spirit truly resides in ME. I don't need to tell you which chapter and verse you will find the Passion. I know the story well. I know that Christ died for ME. And I hold that truth in my heart. The love of my God flows through my body and all I want to do is please Him. I want others to see His reflection in me.
Now, don't get me wrong, I believe every word that has been placed in the Bible. Every story. But, as I have said before, I believe that translation can be different for each of us. Not the BIG picture, just the little nuances that might have been mistranslated over time. I think about it like the game that we played as kids…you know, the one where the first person in the circle says to the second, “Tonight we are having chicken soup for dinner and my mom said that you can stay if you ask your mom first.” Then, after it has gone full circle, the last person stands up and proudly announces, “Your mom is a chicken and she eats poop.”
Please don’t feel that I am comparing any one's translation of the Bible to poop. That is not my intention. I am just saying that sometimes, through no cause of our own, things can get lost in translation. I feel that each one of you believes everything that you say. And this is where I think it all comes back to our heart. The place where the Holy Spirit resides. The place where love lives. This is the place that we will be judged on.
I hope that this won't be the end of this thread. I have enjoyed reading every one's posts and am grateful that you were open with me. Please feel free to continue to quote bible verse and definitely let me know what your heart feels.
May the Holy Spirit live in all of us...
<>< weather...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You totally lost me on this one...Too many contradictions. 
) and the 2004 election and along with a myriad of other things that prove to me that President Bush is indeed the President of the United States I can deal with that. I might not like it. I might not like him at all. I may completely agree with the t-shirt that Alpha mentioned but I also understand that he is indeed my President because he is also falsifiable as a "being". 
