Predestination vs. Free Will (hell, agnostic, believe, bible)

[emi__]

God has a plan for all of us, he knows our life before we are even born. This is known as predestination - we are born for a certain purpose.

But we are also supposedly born with "free will," the ability to decide our own actions. We make the choices that send us either to Heaven or Hell.

These two ideas are entirely conflicting. We don't have free will if our lives are already planned out by God, and God doesn't have a plan for all of us if we are making the decisions.

If God created each of us with a plan all laid out ahead of us, wouldn't that mean that God created some people to be murderers, rapists, thieves... that God created some people to go to Hell? Or are we only capable of making bad decisions with our free will?

Your thoughts?

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by emi__

God has a plan for all of us, he knows our life before we are even born. This is known as predestination - we are born for a certain purpose.

But we are also supposedly born with "free will," the ability to decide our own actions. We make the choices that send us either to Heaven or Hell.

These two ideas are entirely conflicting. We don't have free will if our lives are already planned out by God, and God doesn't have a plan for all of us if we are making the decisions.

If God created each of us with a plan all laid out ahead of us, wouldn't that mean that God created some people to be murderers, rapists, thieves... that God created some people to go to Hell? Or are we only capable of making bad decisions with our free will?

Your thoughts?

Yeah, I hear a lot of these same arguments from agnostics/atheists. And to the carnal mind that's how it would seem. I do believe that God has a plan for us before we are conceived, but I also believe that it is up to us to live up to God's plan.

God's plan is the blueprint, our free will decides whether we follow the blueprint. Although God may know what we do before we do it, I believe that is because he knows our hearts, not that we were predestined to go one way or the other. Just my feelings about it.

[arguy1973]

God does have a plan for our lifes. But its up to us whether we follow that plan or not.

[twin.spin]

That would seem that the two conflicts, if human reason is what we use to understand them. Predestination was not taught to condemn the lost, but to give assurance to the believer.
God wants all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-5

[cg81]

Originally Posted by emi__

God has a plan for all of us, he knows our life before we are even born. This is known as predestination - we are born for a certain purpose.

"Foreknowledge" is not the same as predestination. For example, I might overhear someone planning to rob a bank, but when they do the deed we would not say that it happened because I knew about it. It was still their choice.

Similarly, even if God knows what our choices will be, this has absolutely no bearing on our freedom to choose. He simply can see the future.

[bigthirsty]

Originally Posted by cg81

He simply can see the future.

This is where I get confused.. if God can see the future and God made me.. then doesn't God make the future?

How is that not predestination?

[cg81]

Originally Posted by bigthirsty

This is where I get confused.. if God can see the future and God made me.. then doesn't God make the future?

How is that not predestination?

No... it's something that's hard to understand because we ourselves can't see the future.

Think of it as time travel.. if you could travel forward ten years and see your life as it will be then... the result of the choices you are making between now and then, that would not mean that the choices you make today are not your choice.

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by emi__

God has a plan for all of us, he knows our life before we are even born. This is known as predestination - we are born for a certain purpose.

But we are also supposedly born with "free will," the ability to decide our own actions. We make the choices that send us either to Heaven or Hell.

These two ideas are entirely conflicting. We don't have free will if our lives are already planned out by God, and God doesn't have a plan for all of us if we are making the decisions.

If God created each of us with a plan all laid out ahead of us, wouldn't that mean that God created some people to be murderers, rapists, thieves... that God created some people to go to Hell? Or are we only capable of making bad decisions with our free will?

Your thoughts?

I do not agree that God has a plan for us,individually. I believe he gave us the bible so that we can plan our own lives and thereby show whether we want to be his people or not. He wants our willing devotion,which is why he gave us free will in the first place. Fate would , as you say, conflict with that.

Just because God has the ability to know all, doesnt mean he chooses to.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by arguy1973

God does have a plan for our lifes. But its up to us whether we follow that plan or not.

Yes God has a plan! Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have you says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope".

But arguy is right, it's up us to choose if you want it or not and God honors our decision, even if it's wrong because He loves us that much.

[ShanaBrown]

God has a plan for all of us, he knows our life before we are even born. This is known as predestination - we are born for a certain purpose.

But we are also supposedly born with "free will," the ability to decide our own actions. We make the choices that send us either to Heaven or Hell.

These two ideas are entirely conflicting. We don't have free will if our lives are already planned out by God, and God doesn't have a plan for all of us if we are making the decisions.

If God created each of us with a plan all laid out ahead of us, wouldn't that mean that God created some people to be murderers, rapists, thieves... that God created some people to go to Hell? Or are we only capable of making bad decisions with our free will?

Hi, I believe that God sees beginning to end and if He sees this and brought all into existence, then this would mean that He intentionally created some for eternal hell if eternal hell is true. He knew what would happen and by the creation, brought it into existence. I don't believe that God gives us the free will to determine our eternal destiny. I believe that He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth and that He will accomplish this. How can the imperfect creature's will resist the ultimate perfect will of God? Which one is greater? I don't believe that we have absolute free will, if He works all according to the counsel of His will (Ephesians 1) I believe that all things are from Him, through Him, and to Him. (Romans 11) God bless.