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Trying to "bring in the Kingdom without the King, and fighting a losing battle! Okay, so you don't believe the book of Revelation in it's entirety, read the back of the book and tell me, who won?
To God be the Glory!
You are exactly correct when you ask who WON--past tense!
so by your logic, then to love one's neighbor is strictly those to the left of your house, the right of your house, maybe in front and maybe behind.
But someone living in another state, not so much...
Someone in another country. Not even.
So Jesus was teaching us to love only those that are our neighbors? NO.
Do you see by my example how you are straining at a gnat....
There is a much deeper teaching going on there in Revelation, it is one that requires personal Revelation to comprehend, it is the rubix cube of the scriptures. To hone in on certain words and bind them to a dogma is to chain the Holy Spirit from revealing the fullness of the teaching.
godspeed,
freedom
To ignore or redefine certain words is to deny the fullness of the teaching. John was shown the things that were to THEN SHORTLY take place." Why do you strain at that, freedom?
The Revelation can be understood WHEN it is placed in its proper historical setting--the things that were near in JOHN'S day; the things that he was shown that were to SHORTLY take place. These time indicators are "certain" words and they are KEY to understanding the entire book, yet you refuse to acknowledge them.
Your statement about loving your neighbor makes no sense to me. What are you trying to say? What does that have to do with the time indicators you refuse to acknowledge? But since you brought it up, let's consider it. Are you saying that because I take time indicators seriously and in their normal sense that I could also misunderstand Jesus' words and assume that we are to love only our neighbors? I don't know how you get from one to the other.
Again, what is the CONTEXT of the statement--"love your neighbor as yourself" (Luke 10:25f). Jesus was talking to a lawyer whose goal was to test Jesus. The lawyer quotes Deuteronomy 6:5 which teaches that we are to love God with all our heart, soul and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. Jesus told him to do exactly that and he would live. "Wanting to justify himself," the lawyer asked Jesus "who is my neighbor?"
It is NOT just the person to the left of my house nor just the person to the right of my house nor even those in the front or behind my house. Jesus told him who a neighbor is through the parable of the Good Samaritan. The man who fell among thieves and was left for dead was ignored by a priest and a Levite. It was a Samaritan walking along the road from Jerusalem to Jericho (he wasn't even AT HOME!) who became a neighbor to that total stranger by going the extra mile to care for him!
I am NOT straining at anything when I say that words such as SHORTLY, SOON, NEAR, AT HAND are extremely significant to the understanding of Scripture. Taking such words in their common, normal, everyday, usual sense equates to putting a ROUND peg into a ROUND hole. Those who take these time indicators and redefine them to fit their presuppositions are the ones trying to pound a square peg into a round hole!
While you are pointing a finger at me, three others are pointing back at you!
To ignore or redefine certain words is to deny the fullness of the teaching. John was shown the things that were to THEN SHORTLY take place." Why do you strain at that, freedom?
As i said before, the things that are to shortly come, is the fullfilment of living the teachings of Christ, those that overcome.
The shortly come, does not include the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven nor any of the end of times Prophesies that are spoken of in Daniel, Isaiah, Matthew and Revelation.
Mat 24:3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 ¶ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
As i said before, the things that are to shortly come, is the fullfilment of living the teachings of Christ, those that overcome.
The shortly come, does not include the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven nor any of the end of times Prophesies that are spoken of in Daniel, Isaiah, Matthew and Revelation.
Mat 24:3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 ¶ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
godspeed,
freedom
There is NO end of time nor end of the world. The disciples asked about the end of the AGE (aion)--the age in which they were then living! Notice that Daniel also speaks of the "time of the end" and not the end of time or the end of the world.
Matthew 24, Daniel 12 and the Book of Revelation all speak of the same time frame--Daniel was told to seal up the words of the prophecy because the fulfillment was far off; John was told to NOT seal up the words of the prophecy because the time was NEAR. That time was clearly laid out in Revelation 1:1 and 22:6--John was shown those things which were in his day to SHORTLY take place.
The disciples were addressed directly by Jesus in Matthew 24. The things to soon happen in THAT generation (Mat. 24:34) were to happen to THEM!
You said "As i said before, the things that are to shortly come, is the fullfilment of living the teachings of Christ, those that overcome." That is a total fabrication and is totally dishonest with the words of Matthew 24 and the Revelation. Jesus said "THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE"--this is not "the fulfillment of living the teachings of Christ" nor is the content of the Revelation which involved those things that were in John 's day to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near!
THOSE disciples saw the abomination of desolation just as Jesus said they would. THOSE actual events described in the Revelation took place in the time frame of the things John was shown which were to SHORTLY take place.
What's the significance of your bold type? Jesus told THEM what the signs of His coming would be--and THEY would witness them firsthand! THEY were to watch for them. The Gospel WAS preached throughout the known world (read Colossians 1)--it does NOT say that the Gospel needed to be preach to everyone, everywhere, throughout all ages! Furthermore, do you not understand that THEY, THOSE disciples were told that THEY would personally see the abomination of desolation? As for the lightning--it does not say that there would be lightning but that His coming would be AS lightning coming out of the east and shining even unto the west. The key word is AS. According to your perspective, are only those in Judea to flee to the mountains? Furthermore, to whom is Jesus speaking when he says THEY are not to be deceived. He was talking to THOSE disciples right there with Him!
The end of the AGE did not come with the earthquakes and pestilences or famines--they were the birth pangs which preceded the actual destruction of the city and the temple in A.D. 70! There WERE false prophets and many false Christs in THAT day. The Jewish Wars and the final destruction of the Jewish people and their city WAS cut short in order to spare the elect. Read Josephus and you will understand the horrors of those days! He was after all an EYEWITNESS!
Again, the YOUs of Matthew 24 are clear--they ALL refer to THOSE disciples. To make them mean anyone else is to do dishonor to Jesus' words!
You must acknowledge these clear time indicators. I hope they deeply trouble you until you do! If you understood that the resurrection did not involve a one-time, end of the world popping up of all of those who have ever died throughout all time from their literal graves but involved the raising of those out of Hades/Sheol (the place where people awaited release) at the time of Jesus' return in judgment in A.D. 70, you would see that Daniel (Daniel 12) and Jesus (Matthew 24) were speaking of the same time frame.
I encourage you to rethink your preconceived ideas concerning Christ's Coming, the Resurrection, and the Judgment. When properly and biblically understood, their past fulfillment is evident!
Lately, I have been pondering whether it is really beneficial for us as Christ's followers to concern ourselves as to whether He has already returned or is to come. Just look at the divisiveness this issue causes amongst His children. Shouldn't we be more concerned with living our lives according to His Word and trying to sow seeds rather than trying to convince one another that our view is the right one? Think about it and be blessed either way.
Lately, I have been pondering whether it is really beneficial for us as Christ's followers to concern ourselves as to whether He has already returned or is to come. Just look at the divisiveness this issue causes amongst His children. Shouldn't we be more concerned with living our lives according to His Word and trying to sow seeds rather than trying to convince one another that our view is the right one? Think about it and be blessed either way.
The problem is not as simple as you portray it, urbanlemur.
IF Christ has not come AS HE SAID HE WOULD, then the skeptics and atheists are correct to call Him a false prophet!
IF the inspired writers were wrong in believing that He was coming back in their lifetimes, AS THEY CLEARLY WROTE, then the skeptics and atheists are correct to call them false teachers!
IF the Bible contains such errors than the skeptics and atheists are correct to call Christianity a false religion!
Another danger is this: The left behind craze and nonsense greatly promoted by Hal Lindsey and Jack Van Impe is making Christianity the laughing stock of the unbelieving world.
Furthermore, the rapture mentally has now bred generations of believers who are more concerned about their escape from this troubled world than in making a Christian impact on it.
The futurist eschatology also promotes an unbiblical love affair with modern-day Israel who bears no resemblance to OT Israel and is no longer the people of God. Such error keeps the Church from realizing the great need of the present-day Jew to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that he needs to repent and be born again. And such an attitude toward this U.N.-created nation greatly influences our foreign policy!
This entire issue is not relegated to eschatology or the book of Revelation. The most significant issue is that of the veracity of our Lord's Words and the very words of Scripture. How can believers simply agree to disagree when dealing with the inspired Word? We are so accepting of the denominationalism that exists today and continues to spread while the world looks on and shakes its head in confusion and ridicule.
This issue for me has not been strictly about presenting my position but to encourage my fellow believers to dig deeper and study diligently to make sure they (and I) are believing the Bible and not someone else's interpretation of it. Yet what I have gotten is people's opinions and beliefs with a few Bible verses thrown in for good measure!
That is the sorry state of the Church today--an abundance of pew sitters blindly soaking in everything they are taught and making little effort to be good Bereans concerning even the things coming from their own pastor's mouth! Many believe what they want to believe and when someone challenges those beliefs they respond with, "Heretic!" and call for the dissenter to "Repent and return to God!"
No one on these boards has ever presented a logical, well-argued, biblical case for his futurist leanings and when he cannot answer my clear and concise appeals to the Word, he responds with anger and name calling. I guess I have come to the wrong place to actually find anything that resembles Bible study.
One big reason that preterism has few adherents (at this time--the number grows daily) is because those who have come to it have come as the result of deep, thorough, diligent, prayerful Bible study. Do you suppose this was an easy thing for me? Do you suppose preterists like being called heretics and told to shut up in their churches until they are forced to leave? Do you think we like losing long-time friends over these issues? No one comes to preterism out of a deep-seated desire to be liked and accepted! One comes out of a deep-seated love for God's Word, a desire to thoroughly know what it says, and a willingness to forsake any long-held or precious position if it does not line up with the Word!
It will perhaps not happen in my lifetime, but the time will come when the continued unbiblical and unfulfilled predictions of Christ's return cause many more to abandon the futurist position and drive them back to the Word with fervor and desire for truth. Perhaps then there will be revival in this nation from people not wanting to escape but from those who believe that the Church can have a positive influence on this world and can and should unite against the evil in this world. Perhaps then we will stop the self-fulfilling prophecy that results from those believing this world is without hope. Perhaps the apathetic Church members will stop allowing evil to flourish thus actually fulfilling the prophecies they themselves have created.
Christ has come in glory and power! He sits now at the right hand of the Father. He has judged the world--all wicked perish in eternal punishment and all righteous go immediately into His presence in their eternal resurrection bodies. We are now and ever shall be with the Lord. The Church is victorious and will ever remain victorious in spite of persecution and the evil in the world.
Again, the issues between futurism and preterism cannot be ignored. Neither can we ignore the issues of infant baptism versus believer's baptism, free will versus God's total sovereignty, eternal security versus loss of salvation, etc. We used to have Church councils to attempt to work these things out. Now everyone is content to agree to disagree and the unsaved world looks on in confusion and contempt rightly asking the question, "how can the same Bible teach so many contradictory things?"
How does one live according to the Word, urbanlemur, if he does not CLEARLY know what it teaches? I seek a revival of diligent, intense, thorough individual Bible study and not simply getting people to agree with preterism. I do believe, however, that should such a revival take place, the biblical teachings of preterism will become clear.
Lately, I have been pondering whether it is really beneficial for us as Christ's followers to concern ourselves as to whether He has already returned or is to come. Just look at the divisiveness this issue causes amongst His children. Shouldn't we be more concerned with living our lives according to His Word and trying to sow seeds rather than trying to convince one another that our view is the right one? Think about it and be blessed either way.
It is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict the hearts of men. I have stated this numerous time before. We are in spiritual warfare. I am a soldier for Christ Jesus! I am not ashame, nor afraid to stand at the fore-front and do battle with the enemy! I am wearing the full armor of God! I refuse to sit still and do nothing to counter act the attacks of the devil! There are souls that are honestly seeking to find a message of hope. That Christ Jesus is coming again! Just like He say he would. And when you have a doctrine such as preterism, claiming that Christ has already come, and spreading such nonsense to the lost, the hopeless, what they are really saying is that they will remain in that present condition. Because Christ had already come and He somehow missed them. That we are all hopeless now. That this is it for us. Do you think I'm on here to convince another of whose wrong or right? No! I already know who's right. Jesus the Lamb. The only way! The right way! I am not here to dispute, nor fight. I am here to simply warn others about this false doctrine of demon called preterism. It's wrong! Do not give ears to this destructive heresy! To believe preterism teachings, is to get you to become complacent. To become comfortable. No my friend, Christ's true believing brothers and sisters everywhere are under attack. The enemy's plan of attack is to remove the promise of our Lord Jesus from within your heart. His plan of Salvation. So that when the enemy approaches you feel powerless, hopeless to do anything about it! You're not hopeless, nor forgotten! He will come again! Just like He said He would. Hold fast my friends.
God's Promise Is Not Slack
Knowing this first: that scoffers will
come in the last days, walking according
to their own lust,
and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell
asleep, all things continue as they were
from the beginning of creation."
For this they willfully forgot: that by
the word of God the heavens were of old,
and the earth standing out of the water and
in the water,
by which the world that then existed
perished, being flooded with water.
But the heavens and earth which
now exist are kept in store by the same
word, reserved for fire until the day of
judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, do not forget this one
thing, that with the Lord one day is as
a thousand years, and a thousand years as
one day.
The lord is not slack concerning His
promise, as some count slackness, but is
long-suffering toward us, not willing that
any should perish but that all should
come to repentance. (2 Peter chapter 3 versus 3-9)
He is not finish with us yet !! We still have hope!! Your children still have hope!! Your children's children still have hope!! Your mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters still have hope!! To God and God alone be the Glory! Hallelujah to His name!!
Your sister in Christ Jesus
Last edited by Betsey Lane; 07-05-2008 at 06:49 PM..
It is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict the hearts of men. I have stated this numerous time before. We are in spiritual warfare. I am a soldier for Christ Jesus! I am not ashame, nor afraid to stand at the fore-front and do battle with the enemy! I am wearing the full armor of God! I refuse to sit still and do nothing to counter act the attacks of the devil! There are souls that are honestly seeking to find a message of hope. That Christ Jesus is coming again! Just like He say he would. And when you have a doctrine such as preterism, claiming that Christ has already come, and spreading such nonsense to the lost, the hopeless, what they are really saying is that they will remain in that present condition. Because Christ had already come and He somehow missed them. That we are all hopeless now. That this is it for us. Do you think I'm on here to convince another of whose wrong or right? No! I already know who's right. Jesus the Lamb. The only way! The right way! I am not here to dispute, nor fight. I am here to simply warn others about this false doctrine of demon called preterism. It's wrong! Do not give ears to this destructive heresy! To believe preterism teachings, is to get you to become complacent. To become comfortable. No my friend, Christ's true believing brothers and sisters everywhere are under attack. The enemy's plan of attack is to remove the promise of our Lord Jesus from within your heart. His plan of Salvation. So that when the enemy approaches you feel powerless, hopeless to do anything about it! You're not hopeless, nor forgotten! He will come again! Just like He said He would. Hold fast my friends.
God's Promise Is Not Slack
Knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lust,
and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
For this they willfully forgot: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water,
by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and earth which now exist are kept in store by the same word, reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter chapter 3 versus 3-9)
He is not finish with us yet !! We still have hope!! Your children still have hope!! Your children's children still have hope!! Your mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters still have hope!! To God and God alone be the Glory! Hallelujah to His name!!
Your sister in Christ Jesus
Amen, Betsey!! And I thank the good Lord for Christians like you with this much zeal for the TRUTH! If we all become complacent and let this kind of heresy continue without any kind of challenge...then the enemy has won. I'm going to try to give you reps, but you know how that goes!
Please, Christians.....stand up for Christ and the hope that He offered us when He promised to return!
Its like the pendulum swinging, so to speak. Going from one view to the total opposite. As he says,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist
"Do you suppose this was an easy thing for me?"One comes out of a deep-seated love for God's Word, a desire to thoroughly know what it says, and a willingness to forsake any long-held or precious position if it does not line up with the Word!
He came out of of a deep-seated love for Gods Word, and willingly forsake any long-held position that doesn't line up with the Word. Its as urbanlemur said, lets go to where the harvest is plenty. I can leave with a good concience.
__________________________________________________ _________
Thankfully we are not charged with results, only to profess. We, Betsy, freedom, ILNC and others have all professed (some passionately more than others) to what we believe is to be the truth. Preterist has done also. It should be of some comfort to you that (as of this writing) nobody is intersted in joining his "Bible study" post besides himself.
As a poem goes:
Oh, the echo of one's voice,
in an empty hall;
Bewildered of the peoples choice,
when he made no sence at all.
With that being said, he does make some valid points
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist
Another danger is this: The left behind craze and nonsense greatly promoted by Hal Lindsey and Jack Van Impe is making Christianity the laughing stock of the unbelieving world....the rapture mentally has now bred generations of believers who are more concerned about their escape from this troubled world than in making a Christian impact on it....
promotes an unbiblical love affair with modern-day Israel who bears no resemblance to OT Israel and is no longer the people of God. Such error keeps the Church from realizing the great need of the present-day Jew to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that he needs to repent and be born again. And such an attitude toward this U.N.-created nation greatly influences our foreign policy!
There is some truth to this.. Impe and Lindsay have prophecied about the end coming, and it has come and past. Call it what it is, a false prophet. Preterism just has it by several thousand year earlier. And unfortunatly, Impe is probably the trumpet section today.
It would not surprise me that about influence of our foreign policy. I did hear things to that nature while Pat Roberson and Jerry Farwell were involved in politics.
Preterist is right (though I'm probably taking this not in his "CONTEXT",) these are in and of themself true
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist
The most significant issue is that of the veracity of our Lord's Words and the very words of Scripture.....present day Jews need to acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah and repent.... [at the end of the world] all wicked perish in eternal punishment and all righteous go immediately into His presence in their eternal resurrection bodies............. He sits now at the right hand of the Father.......
The Church is victorious and will ever remain victorious in spite of persecution and the evil in the world.
And the believers say, AMEN!!
Last edited by Alpha8207; 07-07-2008 at 02:34 PM..
Reason: edited out deleted post
I will probably regret this and may be flamed for it, but can I just share my observation? I try to follow the preterism versus futurism posts to the best of my ability because the subject fascinates me. I don't really hold a position right now either way because I'm praying for God to show me the truth. As someone who is more a lurker than anything else on this forum (admittedly I do post occasionally), I see more "hostility"(for lack of a better word) on the futurist's side than the preterist's side. I don't say this to start trouble or anything. I just wanted those who post to these threads regularly to see what someone like me witnesses, someone with no friends here who participates very little.
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Souls for Christ!
,) these are in and of themself true
