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View Poll Results: What are your beliefs about the millenial reign of Christ?
It is a literal reign of 1000 years to happen in the future 8 42.11%
It is a literal reign of 1000 years that is happening now 0 0%
It is a literal reign of 1000 years that has already happened 1 5.26%
It is a symbolic reign that has not happened yet 0 0%
It is a symbolic reign that has already happened 0 0%
It is a symbolic reign that is happening now 4 21.05%
I don't believe in the millenial reign at all 2 10.53%
I don't know 4 21.05%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 06-23-2008, 01:11 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
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I haven't done enough study and research on this to be able to speak knowledgeably about it. I was under the impression that the 1,000 year reign, which comes after the 7 year tribulation and Armageddon, is for the Saints, martyrs and basically all believers of Christ to spend peaceful, restful time with Him.

My question is (after reading an article that someone posted in another thread) where's everyone else? Are there mortals/humans existing outside the gates of the new Jerusalem not allowed inside with the immortal, glorified believers? I mean, since Satan will be loosed after the 1,000 years for a short time to try to deceive, who's he going to deceive? Is it talking about deceiving humans or already dead souls? I guess I just naturally assumed that all were going to die, one way or another, when the end came and never thought much beyond that.

Any thoughts, scripture references or whatever on this?
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:24 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,747,770 times
Reputation: 58197
No thoughts? Maybe I didn't make myself clear in the OP. The following scriptures in particular make me question who is going to reign with Christ and where everyone else is going to be.

Rev. 20: 1-6

Quote:
"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain."

"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."
Okay, these two are pretty clear and straightforward. No problem here.

Quote:
"He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time."
This is where the problem starts. If the world has come to an end, then who is being protected by Satan being bound? What does this mean, "the nations"? I thought ALL would be dead, but maybe not? Or does this millenial reign of Christ include the dead as well as the living? I'm really confused by the circumstances surrounding the millenial reign. More study required.

Quote:
"I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saws the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
Now this really confuses me. This scripture right here seems to infer that ONLY those who become martyrs during the tribulation get to be with the Lord during the millenial reign!!!???? This can't be true, right? If that is true, then where are all the other saints? Are we just to assume that if we are taken in the rapture and all those righteous who have died before us will automatically be there...so not worth mentioning? Is this scripture simply to reassure the martyrs for Christ during the tribulation that they will have a place with Him too? See what I mean? Sooooo many questions.

Quote:
"(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."
Okay....the rest of the dead who? Unbelievers? Everyone other than the martyrs during the tribulation, including believers? This implies the first resurrection is for people who survive the tribulation only and who stood strong for Christ until the end through death or the few who make it out alive as believers. It implies the 1,000 year reign in the new Jerusalem is for tribulation martyrs only. If this is true, then where's everyone else? I mean, the first sentence says clearly that "the rest of the dead" did not come to life until after the 1,000 year reign. Who's the rest of the dead? All believers and unbelievers, or just unbelievers? Are the ones taken up in the rapture spending time in heaven during this reign or are they with Jesus on earth? Quite confusing, indeed. More study, more study.

I know we won't have all the answers until we die or get raptured (whichever comes first) but I would really like to connect the dots here, at least a little.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:14 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 4,332,173 times
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Here are my thoughts from my studies, to be taken or left by whosoever will.... (I dug out my old notebooks to make sure I get some details and scripture references correct. If anyone has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.)

After the Great Tribulation, Christ will return and set up His kingdom (centered in Jerusalem), followed by the new heavens and the new earth (Rev 21:1). The millennial kingdom comes after Christ's second coming but before the establishing of the new heavens and the new earth.

Those who survived the Great Tribulation judgments will have been executed at Armageddon (Rev 19:11-21) or the goat judgment (Matthew 25:31-46). The antichrist and false prophet will have been thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 19:20).

Their absence though doesn't mean that the people in the millennium will be incapable of sinning. Amazingly, a vast part of the population, born of the believers who alone entered the kingdom, will in that perfect environment love their sin and reject Jesus. They will be judged with a rod of iron. (Rev 2:27, Rev 12:5 and Psalm 2:9) But, I'm getting ahead of myself.

Revelation 20:4-6 talks about the reign of the saints. Peace will be established with Jesus as the supreme ruler. The saints will rule subordinately over every aspect of life in the kingdom and will perfectly carry out His will. They'll also judge disputes because John saw God's people resurrected, rewarded and reigning with Christ. He saw thrones, symbolizing both judicial and regal authority, and God's people sat on them, and judgment was given to them.

John also saw the tribulation saints, who had been beheaded and martyred, not receiving the mark of the beast, but endured to the end. Because they were faithful unto death, they came to life and reigned with Christ, too.

The millennial rule of Christ and the saints will be a time of righteousness and peace (Isaiah 32:17) and joy (Isaiah 12:3-4 and 61:3,7). Physically it will be a time when the curse is lifted (Isaiah 11:7-9 and also in chapters 23 and 35), when food will be plentiful (Joel 2) and when there will be physical health and well-being (Isaiah 33 and 35), leading to long life (Isaiah 65:20).

After the 1,000 years, Satan and his demons are released to lead a final rebellion of sinners. Even though the initial population of the millennial kingdom will all be redeemed, they will still have a sinful nature, which, as was the case with Adam and Eve, will be passed along to their children. They will be in need of salvation, but, even with perfect conditions and Jesus' personal reign, many will still reject Him and love their sin. That's what our sinful nature is. Romans 8:7 says "For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey Godís laws, and it never will."

Satan is loosed and leads one last battle that will bring to the surface all the sin and rebellion left in the universe. Revelation 20:8-10 shows how society revolts because there will be many unsaved descendants of those who entered the millennial kingdom in their physical bodies (all of whom are redeemed). We don't know how Satan will deceive them into revolting against Jesus, but they do.

Satan's deception fits in with God's purpose though, which is to manifest His justice when He destroys the last rebels. The Bible says that these rebels come from all over the globe. And since these rebels will be "like the sand of the seashore," and given the peace and prosperity and long life spans, there is apparently a massive population explosion.

Revelation 20:9 says they come to Jerusalem to attack, "And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded Godís people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them."

As you can see from the last part of that verse, it's not really a battle, but an execution. Fire comes from heaven and devours them. They're all instantly killed and will wait for their final sentencing to eternal hell (The Great White Throne Judgment), which takes place shortly after that, according to Revelation 20:11-15.

Believers are already citizens of God's kingdom (Philippians 3:20, Colossians 1:13, and 1 Thessalonians 2:12) blessed to be in fellowship with the King. But a glorious future inheritance awaits them, "imperishable and undefiled which will not fade away." (1 Peter 1:4)

After this is the Great White Throne Judgment.... but I've written far too much already. In short, the Great White Throne Judgment occurs where eternal sentences are handed down and then everything is made new with the new heaven and the new earth. (New Jerusalem!)

Sorry for the long post everyone. It was fun going through all of my notes through the years. I'm currently resuming my study of Revelation right now, so this is a good review for me.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:58 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,466,667 times
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So, like the early disciples , you are still looking for an earthly kingdom ?
I do not find anywhere in the scriptures that say Christ will set up an earthly kingdom.

When I have more time, I will search the scriptures for what Jesus said about that. I have heard many sermons on that, but cannot remember the scriptures on the subject. I am sure He said His kingdom is not of this earth.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: USA
322 posts, read 643,572 times
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First, the book of the Revelation is not speaking so much about a 1,000 year reign of CHRIST but rather, is telling about the saints reigning with CHRIST for a 1,000 years. There is a huge difference there! A big mistake has been made by many Bible scholars because they do not understand this big difference. You see, JESUS is GOD. He reigns and rules forever. That should be understood always. The Revelation is telling and fortelling of a time period of 1,000 years when the saints will reign and rule with Him. He always rules, for 10 yrs, a 100, a 1,000, Whenever and forever!!!!! So the (a) doctrine of a 1,000 yr reign of CHRIST as understood by some has several fundemental flaws from the word go. CHRIST always reigns and rules! No aditional doctrine needed to describe that fact, except where given in other scriptures.

The 1,000 yrs written about in the Revelation ( I teach 2,000 yrs) all takes place prior to the second coming of CHRIST. CHRIST returns, all His enimies are put under His feet (destroyed), then (see 1st Cor) the dead in CHRIST rise, then we who are alive and remain. Then the judgement and marraige supper, and the heavenly city forever with GOD.

None of the Apostles taught a flight to the earthly Jerusalem after the return of CHRIST. That doctrine is like the pre-trib rapture theory, it's simply no where in the bible. Not one single scripture verse anywhere tells us these doctrines. If you find one (and I know you can't) you would have made the discovery of the century, if not the millenium.

I'd like to discuss more about the Revelation and the 2,000 years of the Church in the world prior to the appearing of CHRIST later.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:31 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,562,448 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
So, like the early disciples , you are still looking for an earthly kingdom ?
I do not find anywhere in the scriptures that say Christ will set up an earthly kingdom.

When I have more time, I will search the scriptures for what Jesus said about that. I have heard many sermons on that, but cannot remember the scriptures on the subject. I am sure He said His kingdom is not of this earth.
Good post.. yes, to expect a literal reign to come is not scriptural and runs contrary to Jesus' message about His Kingdom.

Posted by DOTL:
Quote:
I haven't done enough study and research on this to be able to speak knowledgeably about it. I was under the impression that the 1,000 year reign, which comes after the 7 year tribulation and Armageddon, is for the Saints, martyrs and basically all believers of Christ to spend peaceful, restful time with Him.
True.. this peaceful, restful time is what we as believers can experience right now in this troubled world. In the world, yet not of the world... and reigning over sin.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:36 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,562,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Living View Post
The millennial rule of Christ and the saints will be a time of righteousness and peace (Isaiah 32:17) and joy (Isaiah 12:3-4 and 61:3,7). Physically it will be a time when the curse is lifted (Isaiah 11:7-9 and also in chapters 23 and 35), when food will be plentiful (Joel 2) and when there will be physical health and well-being (Isaiah 33 and 35), leading to long life (Isaiah 65:20).
This prophecy looks for the coming of the Messiah who would overcome the curse of sin for us, and usher in a time of blessing for believers where there would be "neither Jew nor Gentile."

And He came!
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:14 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 4,332,173 times
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As I said, I'm not out to convince anyone. I am stating what I believe according to what I've read in the Bible, using scripture to interpret scripture. I don't claim to be perfect in all things. Have I heard from God that my view is absolutely correct? No. But, I've never heard from another person that they can claim that either.

Any king who rules has a kingdom. To me, the Bible is clear that Christ will return to rule and reign for 1,000 years after the Battle of Armageddon. The millennial kingdom is called by many names in scripture. In Matthew 19:28 Jesus calls it "the regeneration." Acts 3:19 describes the kingdom as "times of refreshing," while verse 21 of that chapter calls it "the period of restoration of all things." The apostle Paul refers to it in Ephesians 1:10 as "an administration suitable to the fullness of the times." The Bible's teaching on the kingdom is not confined to the New Testament. The kingdom is an important theme throughout the scripture; it's the goal toward which all redemptive history progresses.

Taking Revelation 20 (and the numerous other biblical passages that speak of the earthly kingdom) at face value leads to a pre-millennial view of eschatology. That's what I hold to - that Christ will return, and then establish a literal kingdom on the earth, which lasts for 1,000 years. There are two other major views called postmillenialism and amillennialism. All sides in the debate agree that interpreting Old Testament prophecy literally leads naturally to premillennialism.
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:22 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,562,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Living View Post
Any king who rules has a kingdom. To me, the Bible is clear that Christ will return to rule and reign for 1,000 years after the Battle of Armageddon. The millennial kingdom is called by many names in scripture. In Matthew 19:28 Jesus calls it "the regeneration." Acts 3:19 describes the kingdom as "times of refreshing," while verse 21 of that chapter calls it "the period of restoration of all things."
The interesting thing is though.. that the terms "kingdom of heaven" or "kingdom of God" appear liberally throughout the New Testament. My question is.. why do we assign not-so-clear terms such as "the regeneration" or "times of refreshing" with the kingdom prophecied in the Old Testament.. and at the same time consider irrelevant to the subject the many instances that the actual word "kingdom" is mentioned in the NT?

Don't know if I'm making myself clear here, but it seems rather odd to me.

"My kingdom is not of this world"

What was Jesus talking about when He said this? What are the many instances of "the kingdom of God" or "the kingdom of heaven" referring to? I'd encourage you to do a study on that! This thread lists the verses: The kingdom of God

Last edited by cg81; 06-24-2008 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,747,770 times
Reputation: 58197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Living View Post
Here are my thoughts from my studies, to be taken or left by whosoever will.... (I dug out my old notebooks to make sure I get some details and scripture references correct. If anyone has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.)

After the Great Tribulation, Christ will return and set up His kingdom (centered in Jerusalem), followed by the new heavens and the new earth (Rev 21:1). The millennial kingdom comes after Christ's second coming but before the establishing of the new heavens and the new earth.

Those who survived the Great Tribulation judgments will have been executed at Armageddon (Rev 19:11-21) or the goat judgment (Matthew 25:31-46). The antichrist and false prophet will have been thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 19:20).

Their absence though doesn't mean that the people in the millennium will be incapable of sinning. Amazingly, a vast part of the population, born of the believers who alone entered the kingdom, will in that perfect environment love their sin and reject Jesus. They will be judged with a rod of iron. (Rev 2:27, Rev 12:5 and Psalm 2:9) But, I'm getting ahead of myself.

Revelation 20:4-6 talks about the reign of the saints. Peace will be established with Jesus as the supreme ruler. The saints will rule subordinately over every aspect of life in the kingdom and will perfectly carry out His will. They'll also judge disputes because John saw God's people resurrected, rewarded and reigning with Christ. He saw thrones, symbolizing both judicial and regal authority, and God's people sat on them, and judgment was given to them.

John also saw the tribulation saints, who had been beheaded and martyred, not receiving the mark of the beast, but endured to the end. Because they were faithful unto death, they came to life and reigned with Christ, too.

The millennial rule of Christ and the saints will be a time of righteousness and peace (Isaiah 32:17) and joy (Isaiah 12:3-4 and 61:3,7). Physically it will be a time when the curse is lifted (Isaiah 11:7-9 and also in chapters 23 and 35), when food will be plentiful (Joel 2) and when there will be physical health and well-being (Isaiah 33 and 35), leading to long life (Isaiah 65:20).

After the 1,000 years, Satan and his demons are released to lead a final rebellion of sinners. Even though the initial population of the millennial kingdom will all be redeemed, they will still have a sinful nature, which, as was the case with Adam and Eve, will be passed along to their children. They will be in need of salvation, but, even with perfect conditions and Jesus' personal reign, many will still reject Him and love their sin. That's what our sinful nature is. Romans 8:7 says "For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey Godís laws, and it never will."

Satan is loosed and leads one last battle that will bring to the surface all the sin and rebellion left in the universe. Revelation 20:8-10 shows how society revolts because there will be many unsaved descendants of those who entered the millennial kingdom in their physical bodies (all of whom are redeemed). We don't know how Satan will deceive them into revolting against Jesus, but they do.

Satan's deception fits in with God's purpose though, which is to manifest His justice when He destroys the last rebels. The Bible says that these rebels come from all over the globe. And since these rebels will be "like the sand of the seashore," and given the peace and prosperity and long life spans, there is apparently a massive population explosion.

Revelation 20:9 says they come to Jerusalem to attack, "And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded Godís people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them."

As you can see from the last part of that verse, it's not really a battle, but an execution. Fire comes from heaven and devours them. They're all instantly killed and will wait for their final sentencing to eternal hell (The Great White Throne Judgment), which takes place shortly after that, according to Revelation 20:11-15.

Believers are already citizens of God's kingdom (Philippians 3:20, Colossians 1:13, and 1 Thessalonians 2:12) blessed to be in fellowship with the King. But a glorious future inheritance awaits them, "imperishable and undefiled which will not fade away." (1 Peter 1:4)

After this is the Great White Throne Judgment.... but I've written far too much already. In short, the Great White Throne Judgment occurs where eternal sentences are handed down and then everything is made new with the new heaven and the new earth. (New Jerusalem!)

Sorry for the long post everyone. It was fun going through all of my notes through the years. I'm currently resuming my study of Revelation right now, so this is a good review for me.
Excellent post, Simple! This is what I was looking for. Scripture references and how it all connects. I guess the only lingering question is I'm still not clear on the physical and spiritual, in regards to who will be what. So do you believe that the scriptures are saying all who have died in Christ will be with Him during that reign? Because that's the only thing that makes sense to me. That's just not what I was getting from the scriptures I quoted. In other words, all Christians from all across time and all the way up to the end will be with Christ during the 1000 years, and all unbelievers will remain dead until the white throne judgement?

So who are the physical/human beings alive during this 1000 years? I don't expect you to have all the answers, but you seem to have researched things over the years so maybe we can all sort this out together. I need to take some serious notes.
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