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I see we have a major theological diverance here. Though CHRIST has not yet returned bodily and visibly (and He will), Let's not forget that on the day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts, the SPIRIT of CHRIST came to inhabit all true believers. He is with the true saints today who are in the world. He is working mightily in the world to convict people of sin, bring them to repentance, and also to lead the Christians into all Truth. And so CHRIST is with us the Church. But do not doubt that the second coming of CHRIST as not yet occured, but will.
Christ did not come bodily--He came in judgment! Those who were "left behind" were not of the elect who were "gathered" by the angels--an event that is mentioned by Jesus BEFORE He said, "This generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place" (Mat. 24:34). The gathering was one of those ALL things!
If you sow no seeds to His glory how is their fruit? That tree will whither and die.
We are not powerless in Christ, we can do the things that Jesus did and more. When we live and keep His teachings.
Humility in using the power of God, Always! But to wait, and not plant that which brings about is why Jesus told the story of the Talents, and the Seed sower.
Meekness is not weakness, and self deprecation is not a be-attitude. We are MORE than conquerors through Christ Jesus.
Thinking we are not part of the power of God, limits what we can do for His glory.
Let your light so shine among men that them seeing your good work may glorify your Father in heaven.
godspeed,
freedom
Yes, freedom! If more of God children can see this.... we are more then conquerers in Christ Jesus. The kingdom rests in the heart of a child of God. Nothing can take that away!!!
It is when we think and act in our own strength we shrink from His power and one becomes weary and discourage. Because without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who deligently seek Him.
Jesus gave us the power of the Kingdom to destroy the power of darkness in our lives and those around us now, for the glory of God!!!
When we humble our lives to God, then His power is our refuge and strength. And no weapon form against us shall prosper.
Receive from Christ His meekness it will give the heart submission to the Father's rest and trustingly believing in His power. And the glory of God will bring many to become son's and daughter's of the living God....
We will receive and inherit the earth and all the blessings God promised. Christ's way it the best way, here and now, as well as in the future.
Quote:
the SPIRIT of CHRIST came to inhabit all true believers. He is with the true saints today who are in the world.
Yes, and Amen!!!
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 06-29-2008 at 07:52 AM..
Reason: correct spelling
Some of the finest Christians I've been blessed to know, believe(d) in the pre-trib rapture. I did myself once upon a time. But today I'm convinced the Church will remain in the world untill the appearing of CHRIST and all His enemies are destroyed. Then the Church will be raptured, (which is after the trib). Though we differ on this, I would never assert that I'm a better Christian than you or that we and others could not be in fellowship. Best wishes
Nor would I ever say I'm a better Christian than you or anyone else. The important thing is one day Jesus will return (because He has not yet) and we will see Him face to face and nothing of this will matter about who was right or wrong.
I love in Judges where it says, "Will not the Judge of the world do right". I trust that I don't need to understand everything. Think of all the experts who debate this tooth and nail. Pre..mid...post trib. and all the rest. I know that it will be the right timing and I am called to be ready and to tell others about Christ while I am here. I think there are reasons why God doesn't give us an exact date. But there are lots of signs that He says to look for.
I think I have mellowed over the years I went to three summers of Seminary in the 70's and used to love to debate. But I know you just don't change people's minds very often. I try in life to "speak the truth in love" and hope that I sow seeds along the way with people I know and meet. Our lives are our witness to the truth.
Nor would I ever say I'm a better Christian than you or anyone else. The important thing is one day Jesus will return (because He has not yet) and we will see Him face to face and nothing of this will matter about who was right or wrong.
I couldn't have said this any better than you! We will see Him when He comes. He promises us that. He said it, I believe it! End of the story for me.
Nor would I ever say I'm a better Christian than you or anyone else. The important thing is one day Jesus will return (because He has not yet) and we will see Him face to face and nothing of this will matter about who was right or wrong.
Well, it may matter more than you think. What if the bulk of Christianity spends most of it's time and resources warning the world about an event which has already occurred?
I like this post from a yahoo group called 'Sacred Cow Tippers'
(Quote): "I hear so many Christians, who believe that this earth will be
literally "burned up", who think it's fine to thus be lousy stewards
of this planet. I hear others, who believe that Jesus is coming
soon, who don't plan for their futures, or their children's futures,
thinking they're soon to "get out of here"...(escapist mentality)!
The Bible promotes eternal life, starting now, abundant life now, but
most Christians moan about how awful this world is, how evil it is,
and how we can't wait to be "taken out of it" ... "Just hold on 'til
Jesus comes!"
We seem to be promoting a futuristic, sterile gospel of retreatism,
pessimism, and irrelevancy. The world doesn't want what we offer -
in general, a futurist view offers little to live for in this life.
Our own children sense this emptiness, and will often go looking for
something they think offers a more full life... more meaning". (end of Quote)
Blessings,
- Byron
Last edited by firstborn888; 06-30-2008 at 05:10 AM..
Reason: grammer
Christ did not come bodily--He came in judgment! Those who were "left behind" were not of the elect who were "gathered" by the angels--an event that is mentioned by Jesus BEFORE He said, "This generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place" (Mat. 24:34). The gathering was one of those ALL things!
Preterist
The error of the preterist happens because they fail to understand the three questions asked JESUS as recorded in Mat. 24. I'll list each:
1) When will these things happen (The desruction of the temple)?
2) When will the eon (age) end.
3) What will be the sign of your coming?
When JESUS uses the word generation, He is useing it synonomously with eon. So He is referring to the end of the age/world and the generation of mankind in the last days, not to a generation of a few years or a human lifespan of 70 years or 40 years.
The error of the preterist happens because they fail to understand the three questions asked JESUS as recorded in Mat. 24. I'll list each:
1) When will these things happen (The desruction of the temple)?
2) When will the eon (age) end.
3) What will be the sign of your coming?
When JESUS uses the word generation, He is useing it synonomously with eon. So He is referring to the end of the age/world and the generation of mankind in the last days, not to a generation of a few years or a human lifespan of 70 years or 40 years.
The error of futurists is that they fail to understand that the word generation is preceded by the pointing demonstrative pronoun THIS. EVERY time Jesus used that expression (without exception) He was referring to His contemporaries. Without exception. There are twenty such uses. Look them up.
Jesus was NOT using it synonymously with eon. He clearly identifies it--THIS generation.
Another error futurists make is to totally disjoin the questions the disciples asked. They all tie into the same event--Jesus' coming at the end of THAT age in which they then lived. Jesus expected THEM to recognize the signs of His coming just as easily as THEY recognized the signs of the coming of summer when they observed the trees!
It was those disciples right there with Jesus who were to see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Mat. 24:15). Luke further explains this as the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies.
Futurists further fail to accept clear time statements. They either ignore them completely or without justification redefine them.
The error of futurists is that they fail to understand that the word generation is preceded by the pointing demonstrative pronoun THIS. EVERY time Jesus used that expression (without exception) He was referring to His contemporaries. Without exception. There are twenty such uses. Look them up.
Jesus was NOT using it synonymously with eon. He clearly identifies it--THIS generation.
Another error futurists make is to totally disjoin the questions the disciples asked. They all tie into the same event--Jesus' coming at the end of THAT age in which they then lived. Jesus expected THEM to recognize the signs of His coming just as easily as THEY recognized the signs of the coming of summer when they observed the trees!
It was those disciples right there with Jesus who were to see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Mat. 24:15). Luke further explains this as the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies.
Futurists further fail to accept clear time statements. They either ignore them completely or without justification redefine them.
Preterist
It is amazing that Apostle Peter, who was one of the three being privately instructed by JESUS as recorded in Mat 24, never mentioned the second coming as happening in your time frame. In fact, in His 2nd epistle, he told how one day for GOD, is like a thousand years for man. He was referring to the day of the LORD, which is the second coming (arrival). Don't you think its kinda strange that Peter would write like that, if your time frame had any merit?
I'll stay with the teachings of the Apostles, which are the teachings of the LORD JESUS.
I love in Judges where it says, "Will not the Judge of the world do right". I trust that I don't need to understand everything. Think of all the experts who debate this tooth and nail. Pre..mid...post trib. and all the rest. I know that it will be the right timing and I am called to be ready and to tell others about Christ while I am here. I think there are reasons why God doesn't give us an exact date. But there are lots of signs that He says to look for.
I think I have mellowed over the years I went to three summers of Seminary in the 70's and used to love to debate. But I know you just don't change people's minds very often. I try in life to "speak the truth in love" and hope that I sow seeds along the way with people I know and meet. Our lives are our witness to the truth.
These (yours) are blessed words and say a lot. It is sad that there are so many conflicting teachings that have caused error and division. So many believe wealth equals money. But to be rich is to fear GOD, believe in JESUS, and always seek to hear and understand His Word, and then obey Him.
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