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Old 09-06-2008, 09:57 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 5,127,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
Wow, hit a sore spot on someone! Must be a universalist!!
If one notices the word discernment is used.....
A lot of things are written beautiful... but are not fruitful for the heart!!!
While this is true that discernment must be used, that wasn't the context of Michael's review. And mine was bolded because I copied his name from his website, and being bolded already I couldn't figure out how to unbold it. But to debate theology over a book, when the book was designed to explain the "relationship" that this man has with God, and how best for HIm to deal with this relationship.

To me, "theology" is pointless without a personal relationship. Jesus didn't come to build up the best doctrine. He came to build a Church, and in that implies relationship. That doesn't mean we will all agree. I am more than happy to dialogue about anything. I'm happy to hear from people who might disagree with me, because perhaps I'm wrong about something. What I don't like is someone who insists that their theological outlook is the only right one, or who criticizes something so harshly but never will back it up with proof, and this proof in in scripture.


P.S. I am not a Universalist. I was for a period of time, but have since realized that probably the only people standing outside of God's beautiful Kingdom will be those who claimed they "knew" Him. You know them, they go by the nickname "christian" but bear no fruit for the Kingdom, nor submit to Jesus Christ as King of Kings. They disobey the Commands of God, while claiming rights by saying a "sinners" prayer.
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Old 09-06-2008, 10:11 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,650,281 times
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Well we all need discernment in the things we place our trust in reading material outside of the Scripture.

I found it interesting because Michael does give scripture on what is portrayed in the story... and I'm really sorry one has to get so angry with someone who is watching and discerning what God would have them to do and READ!!

The Lord will lead all into truth... I don't have to defend... Christ does that for me.. and I'm so thankful that He protects me from things that would bring harm to other's and me...
I know my salvation does not depend on that book... and what other's think... I listen to Christ in my heart, then someone who wants to argue over who is right or wrong....

Blessings
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Old 09-06-2008, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,821,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
Well we all need discernment in the things we place our trust in reading material outside of the Scripture.

I found it interesting because Michael does give scripture on what is portrayed in the story... and I'm really sorry one has to get so angry with someone who is watching and discerning what God would have them to do and READ!!

The Lord will lead all into truth... I don't have to defend... Christ does that for me.. and I'm so thankful that He protects me from things that would bring harm to other's and me...
I know my salvation does not depend on that book... and what other's think... I listen to Christ in my heart, then someone who wants to argue over who is right or wrong....

Blessings
Curly,
Are you sure you did not provoke the response?

I havn't read the book, so i can't comment on it, but if someone reads it and it confirms their faith and brings them to walk in the ways of God, why is that bad?

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 09-06-2008, 10:25 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,650,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Curly,
Are you sure you did not provoke the response?

I havn't read the book, so i can't comment on it, but if someone reads it and it confirms their faith and brings them to walk in the ways of God, why is that bad?

godspeed,

freedom
Excuse me but how did one provoke... by warning to be discerning about reading somethings....
Maybe one needs to either go to website or read the book, before one makes their voice heard..... the book has nothing to do with salvation...
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Old 09-06-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,821,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
Excuse me but how did one provoke... by warning to be discerning about reading somethings....
Maybe one needs to either go to website or read the book, before one makes their voice heard..... the book has nothing to do with salvation...
Thanks for your response. I was just asking.

Not everything has to be about salvation, there are higher steps to climb than being salvaged, even walking in righteousness.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 09-06-2008, 10:54 AM
 
5,715 posts, read 15,005,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I almost had to laugh after reading this Michael Youssef's, commentary about "the shack".

First off, I really enjoyed the "book". Yes, while it does explain A LOT about how his interpretation of the Trinity is, for HIS children as it was written FOR his children, we MUST NOT TAKE IT AS GOSPEL, for it is just a book. Nor does the author intend for anyone to.

Second, I love how people who have PH.D's come in to dissect something written from the heart, by using scripture to refute it. I can show you in scripture where Jesus called us "god's" but then you would say I am sympathetic to Mormonism. This is the mindset of a Pharisee. They "use" scripture to how best it suits them, mostly for their own personal gains.

Third Micheal even contradicts himself, by using scripture to prove a point, and by doing so, makes the Bible itself look contradictory. He blasts Paul for making God's reveal Himself to Mack as an elderly black woman seem heretical, though the only reason for Paul doing so was to remove the misconceptions that people have of the Father. Then Michael blasts Paul for this descriptive type. And a cross isn't offensive to some? Or a portrait of Jesus with halos? Aren't these images and don't people pray to them, kiss them, and even parade them around? But Michael must not believe that Jesus IS the CREATOR. He is just as much Father, as the Father is the Son. Now look around at ALL the portraits and crosses of Jesus. If that isn't imagery I don't know what is.

And Paul Young is not Paul the Apostle. The Shack is not scripture. It is just a book, showing How the author dealt with God and Christ throughout his 15 years of mental anguish, and condensed it down to a weekend in a book.

P.S. He doesn't, I believe, believe in Universal Reconciliation. If he does, that would be his own business. I personally don't find that theology heretical since 5 out of the 6 early churches all believed in this or were sympathetic towards this, as unknowing. Only Rome didn't, and we know who won that war.

P.S.S. If someone told me not to read something, especially someone who made a living from the church, I would rush right out and buy it. Why? Because unless it would be a threat TO them, why would they bash something that was written so beautiful and from the heart for his children?
It seems that you also contradict yourself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I had used to feel the same way as some do about Joel, but have matured in my thinking. It says in the Bible that as believers, we are to Judge Brothers in Christ. But it also says this is concerning those in the immediate area, and we are to toss them out if unrepentant. 1st Cor 5:9-13

In another of Paul's letters to the Philippians Chapter 1:15:18 he is basically saying for us not to worry about what is preached. Let God take care of the fine stuff, and let Christ be proclaimed, no matter the motive behind the vessel doing the speaking.

Now most of us know the "(you could fill in this blank with your choice of many different words here)" teachings going on in the church these days, is wrong. How do we know this? Well first off it is "appealing to the eyes", and eyes not focused on God are well, turned away....
Apparently, it depends upon whether or not you personally like the books written - whether or not it matters what they believe...

The difference in these two posts of yours is like night and day.
According to your own words, we are to accept one and reject the other's ministry as evil?
Sounds a little like the book of James to me...

I sincerely don't want to argue... I just wanted to point this out so that maybe you might be able to see something about your own reasoning...

Last edited by World Citizen; 09-06-2008 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:51 PM
 
1,932 posts, read 4,778,117 times
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Just my obersevations...

To reach a conclusion about universalism being promulgated by this book, to me, is a stretch. They really had to dig to find that, as that didn't even cross my mind. Now, I did worry about a new-age influence because of the "ceremony" of light and color, etc. That did give me some pause. But overall, it didn't offend me or send up flares that this is a book to be avoided or ignored ... and I'm a careful and conservative Christian.

Whether I rationalized it or not, I accepted the book as one man's personal experience/testimony that he shared; first for his kids and second for others. Now, like I said before, whether it's "true" or not, it was what this man experienced (and not even the author. The author was a "ghostwriter" for the man who had the experience).

The illustrations did help explain some doctrines that others have issues with, like understanding the trinity. Overall, it was a message of forgiveness for ourselves and others and acceptance of God. I don't think that's too apostate.
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Old 09-06-2008, 02:38 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 5,127,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
It seems that you also contradict yourself...



Apparently, it depends upon whether or not you personally like the books written - whether or not it matters what they believe...

The difference in these two posts of yours is like night and day.
According to your own words, we are to accept one and reject the other's ministry as evil?
Sounds a little like the book of James to me...

I sincerely don't want to argue... I just wanted to point this out so that maybe you might be able to see something about your own reasoning...

I do respect the fact you don't want to argue, and this I do not either. I'll just point this out as although it does seem contradictory, it really isn't.

Concerning Joel, or concerning Michael, or even although he isn't a "teacher" of the faith, Paul Young, we must always discern what it is they write, preach, or otherwise send out, as messages, to the flocks. The apostle Paul's statement rings as true then, as it does now. But I questioned Michael in particular, just because he labeled a "novel" as heresy.

It is a novel, fiction, that explains his journey summed up in a weekend at a shack. Forget the good it does with helping people deal with a monumental loss in their lives. In this book, children, but could be anything that scars our personal relationship with God. Forget that fact that the book is about a restored relationship with God, in ALL of His Oneness as the Trinity. Forget the fact that it is about forgiveness, and the kind that would be the most intense in the world to forgive.
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Conservative in Liberal California
1,678 posts, read 2,536,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
Well I haven't read the book and was interested in possibly reading it, since I have heard a lot about it.

This morning I received an email from one of the ministries I subscribe to and I just found this out. I would like to share a snip it of some of the information with all and let you make your decision if it is really a good book for Christian to read.

We really need to have more discernment into the things we read. There is hidden messages in some much material that we place our eyes on... they sound good, but should we really read them.

Dr Michael Youssef from, Leading the Way, ministry.
You can go to the web site "Leading the Way" and read more on what he and other's have uncovered about this book.

The Shack Uncovered
After reading the popular novel, The Shack, I find it necessary to bring to light some of its errors. The book is like a deep ditch covered with beautiful flowers — sadly, many Christians are falling into this ditch.

As I read The Shack, I tried to find out as much as possible about the author, Paul Young. He was the son of missionaries to New Guinea. He went to Bible school, and he had some pain in his life. He once believed in biblical truth until about four years ago when he embraced Christian universalism.

Dr. Michael Youssef gives scripture reference to what is promoted in this book against that heresy of the hidden message of Christian Universalist teaching in the book.

But I wanted to post this for other's that possibly have not read it to really pray for discernment that if the Lord wants one to read it.
I'm truly thankful the Lord always protects us somehow from the things that are not of Him and can harm us. I'm so glad He put this information into my hands.


Blessing to all...
I have to agree...I read over half the book, but kept getting an uncomfortable feeling about it...I had to just stop reading it when it got to the part where Jesus say, "I am not a Christian and have no desire to make them"...Buddhists, Mormans, Muslims, etc.. It kind of gave me an "all roads lead to God" kind of feeling. Sorry...just my opinion...I'd have to say, stay out of the Shack!
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso NM
1,483 posts, read 1,802,200 times
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There is a lot of controversy about the "The Shack" over on youtube as well.
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