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I don't know why, but I'm kinda surprised by the many statements saying instead of this thorn being a sickness, that it was some kind of character flaw. I don't know what the thorn was, but I am very happy to see everyone saying it wasn't a sickness. For those who follow the KJV, the word used to describe Paul's thorn is "infirmity".
So for some, people may think Paul had some kind of sickness, some even stated failing eye sight. Yet the greek word used to describe the thorn translate as "weakness". If the thorn was a sickness, Paul would have used another word. Yet the one he used more accurately describes a character flaw or bad habit. (Of course this was in the flesh, and we know no good thing dwells in the flesh/our bodies. The messenger Satan sent most likely proded Paul at a weakpoint in his body. The best way I can describe it, perhaps someone who is struggling with lust)
Again, I am very happy most of you don't see this thorn as a sickness and here's why. Some people believe God doesn't heal everybody. Some even go so far to say God is using sickness to teach us a lesson. They would use Paul's thorn in the flesh as evidence to this, and thus so many would be decieved in this point. The truth is, God does heal and wants to heal everyone. Sickness is of the curse that was brought on by Adam. God redeemed us from this curse, and so sickness has no right in our bodies, anywhere. Jesus Himself has taken our sicknesses at the cross. As we read in Isaiah ch. 53 verse 4....
"Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted."
Most english translations of the Bible say He has borne our "griefs" and carried our "sorrows". Yet the most accurate to the Hebrew are the words "illnesses" and "pains". So the verse should read...
"Surely He has borne our illnesses and carried our pains; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted."
All of that is to say it is a slap in God's face, when someone says God doesn't heal some people. Jesus Himself have carried our sicknesses and diseases upon the cross. So the thorn in Paul's flesh, most certainly was not an illness.
I don't know why, but I'm kinda surprised by the many statements saying instead of this thorn being a sickness, that it was some kind of character flaw. I don't know what the thorn was, but I am very happy to see everyone saying it wasn't a sickness. For those who follow the KJV, the word used to describe Paul's thorn is "infirmity".
So for some, people may think Paul had some kind of sickness, some even stated failing eye sight. Yet the greek word used to describe the thorn translate as "weakness". If the thorn was a sickness, Paul would have used another word. Yet the one he used more accurately describes a character flaw or bad habit. (Of course this was in the flesh, and we know no good thing dwells in the flesh/our bodies. The messenger Satan sent most likely proded Paul at a weakpoint in his body. The best way I can describe it, perhaps someone who is struggling with lust)
Again, I am very happy most of you don't see this thorn as a sickness and here's why. Some people believe God doesn't heal everybody. Some even go so far to say God is using sickness to teach us a lesson. They would use Paul's thorn in the flesh as evidence to this, and thus so many would be decieved in this point. The truth is, God does heal and wants to heal everyone. Sickness is of the curse that was brought on by Adam. God redeemed us from this curse, and so sickness has no right in our bodies, anywhere. Jesus Himself has taken our sicknesses at the cross. As we read in Isaiah ch. 53 verse 4....
"Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted."
Most english translations of the Bible say He has borne our "griefs" and carried our "sorrows". Yet the most accurate to the Hebrew are the words "illnesses" and "pains". So the verse should read...
"Surely He has borne our illnesses and carried our pains; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted."
All of that is to say it is a slap in God's face, when someone says God doesn't heal some people. Jesus Himself have carried our sicknesses and diseases upon the cross. So the thorn in Paul's flesh, most certainly was not an illness.
I was looking at the Greek word that is translated "Thorn" in 2 Cor. and it is skolops skol'-ops and the definition is " withered at the front, i.e. a point or prickle (figuratively, a bodily annoyance or disability)" So it seems it is some illness or injury.
The thorn was a sickness - hernia. Paul was puzzled because he could heal others of their ailments but he himself suffered with his own ailment without a cure. He prayed several times and each time God told him that his strength is made perfect in weakness.
The lesson here is that God gives each man his own burden to bear.
I was looking at the Greek word that is translated "Thorn" in 2 Cor. and it is skolops skol'-ops and the definition is " withered at the front, i.e. a point or prickle (figuratively, a bodily annoyance or disability)" So it seems it is some illness or injury.
All we know is that may well have been a physical ailment. Some have speculated that he was losing his ability to read \ or write due to the multiple physical beatings he endured.
One theory is that Paul would speak the letter to a person and then would authenticate it by his greeting in his own hand much like today when someone who signs a document.
Colossians 4:18 I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand. Remember my chains. Grace be with you.
2 Thessalonians 3:17 I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand, which is the distinguishing mark in all my letters. This is how I write.
This is probably why Paul warned about the false letters that were going around. His "distinguishing mark" was how one could authenticate that it was truly from Paul or not. The important thing to remember is that Paul's letters were considered scriptures as on the same level as the OT.
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-16-2013 at 10:01 AM..
I was looking at the Greek word that is translated "Thorn" in 2 Cor. and it is skolops skol'-ops and the definition is " withered at the front, i.e. a point or prickle (figuratively, a bodily annoyance or disability)" So it seems it is some illness or injury.
Paul describes his thorn as an infirmity. In 2 Corinthians 12:9 it states...
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
...That word infirmity is not accurate to the greek word used there. The greek word is "astheneia" which means weakness. Weakness is not described as a sickness. If it were a sickness, another word would be used there. Also read 2 Corinthians 12:10 (and I'll use the NASB translation here for accuracy)...
"Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong."
...So you can see Paul is not talking on being content with sickness or diseases. These are apart of the curse that Jesus has delivered us from. We still have these bodies however, and we know the body is weak. (As Jesus said the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak) So we will experience weaknesses in these bodies, and I believe the thorn in the flesh was a string a messenger of Satan was pulling in Paul's body. Trying to tempt him in some way, that constantly enticed his body's feelings. (For instance there are some things that wouldn't tempt me, but would tempt you, and vice versa) Yet all in all, this thorn was not a sickness.
Last edited by Heavenese; 02-16-2013 at 10:42 AM..
The thorn was a sickness - hernia. Paul was puzzled because he could heal others of their ailments but he himself suffered with his own ailment without a cure. He prayed several times and each time God told him that his strength is made perfect in weakness.
The lesson here is that God gives each man his own burden to bear.
Question. If Jesus bore our sicknesses, how is it that they should remain with us? It would be like Jesus taking our sins upon the cross, only to find out they are still there. If we retain our sins, then we are not worthy to enter God's presence.
You see everyone believes on Christ for the forgiveness of sins, yet most don't see it the same way when it comes to sicknesses. That is why Paul said for this reason, many are sick and have fallen asleep. They fail to comprehend that Christ have taken our sicknesses, as much as He have taken our sins. Paul's thorn most certainly wasn't sickness, it would be a slap in God's face.
Paul describes his thorn as an infirmity. In 2 Corinthians 12:9 it states...
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
...That word infirmity is not accurate to the greek word used there. The greek word is "astheneia" which means weakness. Weakness is not described as a sickness. If it were a sickness, another word would be used there. Also read 2 Corinthians 12:10 (and I'll use the NASB translation here for accuracy)...
"Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong."
...So you can see Paul is not talking on being content with sickness or diseases. These are apart of the curse that Jesus has delivered us from. We still have these bodies however, and we know the body is weak. (As Jesus said the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak) So we will experience weaknesses in these bodies, and I believe the thorn in the flesh was a string a messenger of Satan was pulling in Paul's body. Trying to tempt him in some way, that constantly enticed his body's feelings. (For instance there are some things that wouldn't tempt me, but would tempt you, and vice versa) Yet all in all, this thorn was not a sickness.
While you could be right I would point out that you seem to be choosing the definition of the word based on your preconceived opinion of what it means. The greek word could also mean something else.
Strongs:
"769 astheneia as-then'-i-ah from 772; feebleness (of mind or body); by implication, malady; morally, frailty:--disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.
So based on the word used we cannot really say with any certainty what it was.
As you said what you believe based on your theology I said what I believe based on my theology. I cannot say you are wrong and be truthful nor can you. But it's not relevant to know for our salvation or walk with God anyway.
Question. If Jesus bore our sicknesses, how is it that they should remain with us? It would be like Jesus taking our sins upon the cross, only to find out they are still there. If we retain our sins, then we are not worthy to enter God's presence.
You see everyone believes on Christ for the forgiveness of sins, yet most don't see it the same way when it comes to sicknesses. That is why Paul said for this reason, many are sick and have fallen asleep. They fail to comprehend that Christ have taken our sicknesses, as much as He have taken our sins. Paul's thorn most certainly wasn't sickness, it would be a slap in God's face.
And one day we who are His will all be healed. Not today as you can see. Same as one day we all shall live forever but for now we will die unless Jesus comes during our lifetime.
Don't be afraid to embrace what was provided for us at the cross. God has given us grace, but so few fully embrace it. This isn't about sharing what "my theology" is, or about some denominational teaching. This is straight up talk, this is (if we were to view our faith like we view school) basic education.
Again when looking at what Paul was talking on in those verses, sickness doesn't seem to be apart of the mix. If it were, a different greek word would have been used, the word arrōstoi. No, from all the things mentioned by Paul in relations to this thorn, it seems to be weaknesses dealing with the body in general, which is character flaws for lack of better words. (Also persecution from people, hardships in life, insults, etc.)
Quote:
And one day we who are His will all be healed. Not today as you can see. Same as one day we all shall live forever but for now we will die unless Jesus comes during our lifetime.
We can be healed now, our healing has been made available at the cross. Yet as you can see, not many Christians see it that way. Paul spoke on this concerning taking communion. People failing to discern the Lord's body, which was represented by the bread we eat. Jesus body was broken for us, Scripture says He bore our sicknesses and pain. So if He took it, why do many still suffer? It's because we fail to comprehend that part. It's like an officer in uniform, failing to realize he has authority to arrest criminals. Can you imagine an officer pulling someone over for reckless driving, discover the driver is drunk, and then asking them permission to arrest them? What do you think will happen then? Surely the driver will flip the officer off, and drive away in the sunset. That is why sickness is still seen in Christians. They don't believe God has taken their sicknesses, and many even believe God use sickness to teach us a lesson. That He just doesn't heal some people. I don't have to tell you that people believe that.
It's time we get back to what God has done for us. We are supposed to be an example of God's power on the earth, yet we look like the rest of the world.
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