Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm not sure I understand those verses in entirety, (in fact, I'm pretty sure I do not .. I'll have to study those abit more.) But I believe you're reading something into the verses that they are not meaning to portray.
Hebrews 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
We crucify Jesus afresh if we fall away and renew again unto repentance.
Quote:
I believe that verse 1 is telling us that we who have entered into a new life with Christ need to press on in sanctification. We cannot enter the stage where we once were.. we can only become "born again" once. We have already accepted Christ's sacrifice, and "the foundation of repentance from dead works" has been laid in our lives and we need to build on it.
This is what i am hearing, keep sinning, so we can keep repenting.
Quote:
Verses 4-6 tie in together with verse one in this thought.. the initial work of repentance that has taken place in our life, making us a child of God by faith in Him, is a one-time event. We will from that point on be either a child of God in His grace, or a backslidden child who has crucified the Lord anew, but we will never enter our former "unconverted" state. We are very responsible.. We will need to repent, we will fail, we may upon repeated and willful disobedience fall out of the grace of God, and upon true repentance again enter His grace, but this will not mean that we are being "born again" again, but rather that we are returning like the prodigal son to the Father's arms.
I know that this is what people teach, but its not scriptural. We are to leave the old man, and renew our minds. Not be satisified with the old ways, or resting in salvation.
We crucify Jesus afresh if we fall away and renew again unto repentance.
But the verse says "it is impossible to renew unto repentence". How do you explain that?
Quote:
This is what i am hearing, keep sinning, so we can keep repenting.
I don't believe that way. "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid!"
Quote:
I know that this is what people teach, but its not scriptural. We are to leave the old man, and renew our minds. Not be satisified with the old ways, or resting in salvation.
We cannot renew our minds.. that is a work of God upon true repentance. True, we cannot rest in salvation as far as "just sit there"... but salvation is a complete work. We are perfect in God's eyes the moment we accept His grace-covering. However, that is where we need to continue on in sanctification, through our entire life. God requires more of His child than to simply accept the offering of grace and continue on in your previous way. If I'm not going forward, I'm going backward. There is no "standing still".
But the verse says "it is impossible to renew unto repentence". How do you explain that?
There are some incredible qualifiers to this degree of Belief.
I have not been enlightened nor made a partaker of the Holy Ghost, but i do desire to be, and know that it is a promise that is at hand, and possible.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Quote:
I don't believe that way. "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid!"
I know you don't. I've been asking the youth, what they hear when they hear similar comments and doctrine, and its amazing how clearly they feel that they have more oneness with their skateboards and ipods, than God, because after all they said the prayer in Vacation bible school when they were 9.
Quote:
We cannot renew our minds.. that is a work of God upon true repentance. True, we cannot rest in salvation as far as "just sit there"... but salvation is a complete work. We are perfect in God's eyes the moment we accept His grace-covering. However, that is where we need to continue on in sanctification, through our entire life. God requires more of His child than to simply accept the offering of grace and continue on in your previous way. If I'm not going forward, I'm going backward. There is no "standing still".
We can do lots of things, if we believe.
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25 ¶ Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
I have not been enlightened nor made a partaker of the Holy Ghost, but i do desire to be, and know that it is a promise that is at hand, and possible.
I have, freedom, by God's grace!
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
If we truly repent, God has promised to give us the gift of the Holy Ghost. This is for everyone! It's not some far-off complex thing to strive for, but is available to all!
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
If we truly repent, God has promised to give us the gift of the Holy Ghost. This is for everyone! It's not some far-off complex thing to strive for, but is available to all!
Can I point something out, cg81? And no I'm not trying to be snarky or callous, but I am seriously trying to point this out because I do not get it and I never have. Referring to your bolded posts above it seems that less emphasis is put on living a Christ-like lifestyle and more emphasis is put on accepting Jesus whether it be at the very end of your life or very early in life.
The emphasis is on repentence. True repentence. It takes the same thing for everyone, whether they have a long sinful life behind them, or if they are young and you would say they were at the start of life. You need to repent and give everything over to God to be saved.
Quote:
Do you not see how this might be confusing for someone like me? I have repeatedly been told that it matters not only if you have accepted Jesus into your heart but also how your actions reflect that in terms of trying to live a Christ-like lifestyle. Now I do have a point in all of this:
In essence, I could live my life how I wanted to in the same fashion that I am and always have been doing. I'll drink a little here and there, I'll smoke a few cigarettes, look at a little porn, advocate gay marriage, not take a really big stance on abortion, and so on and so forth - most of these things are often seen as un-Christlike by many and questionable to others, right? What you're telling me is that I can do all of this until I'm 62 years old (smokers typically die young) and right as I feel my heart giving out I can switch teams and then I'll be in heaven.
I touched on this in a previous post in this thread.. but to go over some of this again, it's not just a matter of saying, "well, it looks like it's probably time to switch over to God's team". It takes a true repentance, remorse, feeling sorry for your sins.. and someone who is simply wanting to take advantage of life, time and grace will probably find out that they should not have waited. Grace is extended to us in GOD's time, not ours. We have no promise that we will receive another call before we die.. we need to answer the call now.
Quote:
On the flip side, does this not also mean that someone could be "saved" early in life and yet their actions do not reflect that they are saved? In essence, they live a rather un-Christlike lifestyle. Yet, because they are "saved" does this not allow for a false sense of confidence to pass judgments, do bad things, and act un-Christlike in whatever way we want to think about and yet still grant them entry into heaven?
Like you say, this is a false sense of confidence. God looks at the heart and knows if we are truly saved. Being "saved" is not only a one-time event, a free pass to heaven. It is a "state". If we are not following God, we can not trust in a one-time salvation prayer to grant us entry into heaven. "Many shall say Lord, Lord, etc."
Quote:
Because I get the feeling that what you're saying is that you know God's word and that word is that if you're saved you will go to heaven. Again, I get the part about God being the authority, but surely you see my point? How can we assert that being saved AND actions are the way to heaven but then turn around and say that merely being saved is the way to heaven regardless of how late or early in life we commit to it?
I hope I answered your questions above.. feel free to ask if you have more.
BTW.. Actions are not the way to heaven, but actions tell where your heart is. If I truly repent at whatever stage in my life I am at, my actions from that point on will be different... and if I continue in this, I will reach heaven some day.
The gift of salvation, first of all.. and upon this, the infilling of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is a gift.. given to each true believer as a guide and comforter, to reprove us when we do wrong, lead us into truth, and comfort when we do right.
The gift of salvation, first of all.. and upon this, the infilling of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is a gift.. given to each true believer as a guide and comforter, to reprove us when we do wrong, lead us into truth, and comfort when we do right.
Our breath is a gift.
In the context of the Holy Spirit. What gifts have you been given.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
In the context of the Holy Spirit. What gifts have you been given.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Yes.. and these signs did follow the apostles. We don't see this happening in our country so much today, but if you look at other Third World countries where the gospel isn't so "free" you hear about some amazing miracles occurring.
1 Cor 12-14 talks about various gifts by the Spirit. As this verse relates...
1 Cor 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
....I believe gifts that are given today to us are for the edifying of the church. Some are gifted in speaking, some in listening, some in interpreting, etc. Each member has a gift to contribute.
Yes.. and these signs did follow the apostles. We don't see this happening in our country so much today, but if you look at other Third World countries where the gospel isn't so "free" you hear about some amazing miracles occurring.
1 Cor 12-14 talks about various gifts by the Spirit. As this verse relates...
1 Cor 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
....I believe gifts that are given today to us are for the edifying of the church. Some are gifted in speaking, some in listening, some in interpreting, etc. Each member has a gift to contribute.
Could it be possible that those that operate in the Spirit are also the ones that live righteous lives.
godspeed,
freedom
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.. I'll have to study those abit more.) But I believe you're reading something into the verses that they are not meaning to portray.
