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Dotl, the point of the example is that it seems to be not that simple when there are so many opinions to it, confusion is the denominations, Jesus brought One church, and man turned it into a religion.
Exactly, denominations have nothing to do with what Jesus did for us on the cross and salvation. Ergo....the title of the thread..........
"Do you believe salvation is found in Christ and Christ alone?"
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No, you certainly don't, but to see His face and abide in the Father, overcoming sin is required. Salvation provides the opportunity to grow, it doesn't blind God or Jesus to the reality of our degree of belief. They know clearly who are theirs and who are not.
No it's not. Sin will always exist, and we will all be sinners UNTIL we see His face. Salvation provides the opportunity to be able to see the Father's face through Jesus Christ His Son and His death and resurrection. Some have more faith than others, that doesn't make them unbelievers. It's God's job to judge someone's walk, not human beings.
The point that I keep trying to make is that you and others who believe like you do are making salvation seem like something unattainable and out of reach, when it is simple and available to ANYONE and EVERYONE.
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Your funny Dotl, that's what i love about you, no disrespect but your last statement could be discerned as a little confusing.
This is what I said:
There's no required perfection involved or certain criteria you have to meet. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS INVITE JESUS CHRIST INTO YOUR HEART AND LIFE BY FAITH, REPENT AND LIVE A GODLY LIFE ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. Is there any Christian (I said Christian) reading this that finds anything remotely confusing about this statement? Is it not what we are told in the Bible? I believe it is so simple even a child can understand it.
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Note the requirements for having no requirements...especially LIVE A GODLY LIFE ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE....
You're kidding me, right? Living a Godly life is not having requirements? Have you even read the Bible?
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Does the bible say BE thou Perfect as your Father in Heaven? Ofcourse it does, in fact the word perfect is used 42 times in the NT alone.
You've taken this "perfection" thing and made it your personal mission to confuse and insist that salvation requires perfection. That is not what God meant by the use of the word "perfection" or "perfect". How is the word "perfect" used each and every 42 times? GOD IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS PERFECT OR WHO EVER WILL BE, UNTIL WE MEET HIM.
It is a directive to strive to be perfect; to be better and live like the Bible teaches. If we could attain perfection then what would even be the need for Jesus and His death on the cross? It's like saying His death and resurrection was completely in vain!! There are as many or more scriptures saying that WE ARE ALL SINNERS. Yes, even you.
Do you know what sinning is? It's IMPERFECTION.
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Being saved under todays definitions, do not bring automatically the gifts, ie discernment, prophecy, wisdom, or spiritual powers. The reason is that Today its, Christians arn't perfect just forgiven, say a prayer and do nothing else, try....etc.. dumb down, water down, keep the butts in seats and unoffended, unaccountable, unworthy.
Your issue is with organized religion. You need to take it up with them, and stop making up your own rules and belief system. What you espouse is not Biblical, and it serves no good purpose to anyone except yourself. Being saved is the first and most important step in a lifelong journey of living and walking with Christ.
It is not your job (nor any of your business, for that matter) to worry or concern yourself with another's walk in Christ. A Christian's responsibility is to plant the seed, spread the gospel and to educate on how to become saved, and the rest is a growth process through the Holy Spirit. The walk is up to the individual, and if they fall away or don't walk upright, God will not tolerate it and their punishment is eternal damnation!!
It seems you are trying to control an uncontrollable situation, and one that isn't even yours to control. God is in control, and He decides, He judges who goes to heaven and hell. People who you never would have thought would be there will be in heaven, and people that you just knew would be there....won't be. It's going to be very surprising for some. But can you control it? NO!!!
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And those that teach false salvation are the perpetrators of it.
Again, not your concern. God will deal with false whatever's. What should be your concern is warning people of false doctrines and teachers.
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What does it mean to you, through Jesus Christ?
Freedom....what is wrong with you? How many times do we have to say it? It's obvious you are not a believer of the importance of what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. Or you wouldn't have to ask this question.
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I'm just one voice, crying in the ethernet...sharing the pure undefiled scriptures in print and in heart.
If that's all you were doing I could agree with you. Stop it!!!
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Huh? Don't know what your saying here.
Fear, Freedom. Some say you can smell it.
Fear of not being accepted, fear of speaking up and out for Jesus, fear of persecution, fear of what other's might think oh,no, etc. etc., etc. Fear is smelly.
Exactly, denominations have nothing to do with what Jesus did for us on the cross and salvation. Ergo....the title of the thread..........
"Do you believe salvation is found in Christ and Christ alone?"
Yes i do!
Though not as it is taught in most religions. Jesus spoke of being saved 2 times. Both times He said, Thy Faith hath saved thee.
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No it's not. Sin will always exist, and we will all be sinners UNTIL we see His face.
No where in the scriptures does it say that the unrighteous will see the face of God nor inherit His throne. Heaven is a big place, and most end up in summer school, due to unbelief.
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Salvation provides the opportunity to be able to see the Father's face through Jesus Christ His Son and His death and resurrection.
Yes it provides the opportunity, it does not guarantee it with all behaviours, because of a VBS prayer said when one is 9.
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Some have more faith than others, that doesn't make them unbelievers. It's God's job to judge someone's walk, not human beings.
Not according to scripture. Those that shall judge are the Disciples of Christ.
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The point that I keep trying to make is that you and others who believe like you do are making salvation seem like something unattainable and out of reach, when it is simple and available to ANYONE and EVERYONE.
Being salvaged is nothing to blow a horn about, it is a free gift available to any that have Faith.
The sad part to me is that it is so focused on that the higher teachings are thought of as unattainable.
We are called to Go unto perfection, godliness, holiness, righteousness. Put on a new creature, one of the Spirit. Not live according to the flesh and its unholy desires and appetites.
Salvation satisfaction is based in accepting the weaknesses of the world and making them ruler of ones life, rather than overcoming through the Spirit of Christ.
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This is what I said:
There's no required perfection involved or certain criteria you have to meet. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS INVITE JESUS CHRIST INTO YOUR HEART AND LIFE BY FAITH, REPENT AND LIVE A GODLY LIFE ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. Is there any Christian (I said Christian) reading this that finds anything remotely confusing about this statement? Is it not what we are told in the Bible? I believe it is so simple even a child can understand it.
Living a Godly life...we truly are called to do, i would not classify it as imperfect.
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You're kidding me, right? Living a Godly life is not having requirements? Have you even read the Bible?
Okay... we have very different definitions of what requirement means. It isn't a requirement of salvation, but truly is a requirement to be in the pressence of Glory.
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You've taken this "perfection" thing and made it your personal mission to confuse and insist that salvation requires perfection. That is not what God meant by the use of the word "perfection" or "perfect". How is the word "perfect" used each and every 42 times? GOD IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS PERFECT OR WHO EVER WILL BE, UNTIL WE MEET HIM.
Go to blueletterbible and word search it, you will see how important perfection is to God and His Son.
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It is a directive to strive to be perfect; to be better and live like the Bible teaches. If we could attain perfection then what would even be the need for Jesus and His death on the cross? It's like saying His death and resurrection was completely in vain!! There are as many or more scriptures saying that WE ARE ALL SINNERS. Yes, even you.
Would God ever give a command that was impossible?
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Do you know what sinning is? It's IMPERFECTION.
Go and sin no more... Did Jesus say this? How many times?
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Your issue is with organized religion. You need to take it up with them, and stop making up your own rules and belief system. What you espouse is not Biblical, and it serves no good purpose to anyone except yourself. Being saved is the first and most important step in a lifelong journey of living and walking with Christ.
You've never pointed out anything that i have written that is not taught in the scriptures. Our definitions are where you have issue, and that is where the churches have found the stumbling block of the blind leading the blind.
I agree that being saved is an important baby step. Why keep teaching the adults how to take their first step.
A powerful Holy church would be constantly refreshing, as the babes grow into the fulness, there would be more room for babes. Instead the tired sermons and repetitive mantras that have no nutrition are continually played out to sooth the children in their cribs, until the grave claims their spirit starved souls and they pray for death.
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It is not your job (nor any of your business, for that matter) to worry or concern yourself with another's walk in Christ. A Christian's responsibility is to plant the seed, spread the gospel and to educate on how to become saved, and the rest is a growth process through the Holy Spirit. The walk is up to the individual, and if they fall away or don't walk upright, God will not tolerate it and their punishment is eternal damnation!!
So says you. You truly have no idea what my mission is on this earth, or what i am to say or not say.
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It seems you are trying to control an uncontrollable situation, and one that isn't even yours to control. God is in control, and He decides, He judges who goes to heaven and hell. People who you never would have thought would be there will be in heaven, and people that you just knew would be there....won't be. It's going to be very surprising for some. But can you control it? NO!!!
Your assumption is amiss, not interested in control, i'm interested in the truth of the higher teachings. If people choose to be luke warm, that is their choice. Most think that Jesus will wave a magic wand and make them like Him without ever putting any thought or effort or desire, or hungering and thirsting on their part.
There is no scripture to support the unrighteous inheriting the kingdom of God, on the contrary it says they won't.
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Again, not your concern. God will deal with false whatever's. What should be your concern is warning people of false doctrines and teachers.
Your council is not worthy, we are to exhort, and encourage and above all teach only the truth. To you who can believe, All things are possible.
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Freedom....what is wrong with you? How many times do we have to say it? It's obvious you are not a believer of the importance of what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. Or you wouldn't have to ask this question.
I'm asking for your definition, i have my own.
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If that's all you were doing I could agree with you. Stop it!!!
Now, now... stay focused. What is it to be saved through Jesus Christ?
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Fear, Freedom. Some say you can smell it.
Fear of not being accepted, fear of speaking up and out for Jesus, fear of persecution, fear of what other's might think oh,no, etc. etc., etc. Fear is smelly.
Is this directed at me? You think I Fear what people think?....
Have you read what i post? No fear sweetheart, Love conquers all fear.
And all I asked in the OP is basically "Do you believe Christ?"
I've stated here many times that the 'believe' in biblical application really means 'life altering belief'.
Because, even the demons believe--and shudder! (James 2:18-20)
Yes, I know many of us here have the depth of belief that only God given faith creates. My 'over-the-top' response is mostly aimed toward religious Christianity which (in many cases) sees no Christ outside of bible based churches and condemn those as heretics who do.
FWIW I live in this controversy in the real world as well and lived through 30 years of ministry (20 years full time) so I've pretty much seen/heard it all.
Sorry if I seem to reek of anything unpleasant, but I do feel I have a legitimate ax to grind with a large bulk of Christianity as many misrepresent God's nature and plan for the ages. In most cases it's not malicious or intentional but is just a matter of centuries of tradition and bad theology and less than stellar bible translations and interpretations heaped one on top of another.
Sorry if I seem to reek of anything unpleasant, but I do feel I have a legitimate ax to grind with a large bulk of Christianity as many misrepresent God's nature and plan for the ages.
Fine, grind it in your own thread.
This one's Christ centered, not you centered.(Or freedom, or alpha, or dayofthelord or anyone else)
Thanks.
Here's the OP again:
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."
Do you believe that?
Explain why or why not.
I wonder about those that answered He's probably the best, but not the only.
I answered what I believe -- Jesus is the only way to salvation.
Why? Because He is THE truth. Many others may have part of the truth, a sliver, a portion, but not the entirety. Jesus is the gate by which we enter (John 10:9). He is the shepard whose sheep know his voice(John 10:26-28). Jesus is the only name under heaven by which we are saved (Acts 4:12).
Fine, grind it in your own thread.
This one's Christ centered, not you centered.(Or freedom, or alpha, or dayofthelord or anyone else)
Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."
Do you believe that?
Explain why or why not.
I was just explaining at first but then the ax grinding started when I said
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Originally Posted by firstborn888
Frankly, this thread reeks of evangelical exclusivity.
I see now that the statement was an assumption on my part (really an accusation) and I apologize.
I do hope I have added some useful things to think about concerning the OP.
Blessings,
- Byron
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