Same scripture, different meaning? (doctrine, churches, belief, evolution)
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Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
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If I took a painting of a still life...say, oh, fruit and flowers in a vase...and I showed it to five different people, all five would see something different in the painting, and all five would be correct in what they "see". And yet, each might argue with the others about what they see as being the right sight. Then, if I asked the artist to tell me what he or she had painted, she might have an entirely different vision and intention. The entire world is in the eye of the Beholder.
If I took a painting of a still life...say, oh, fruit and flowers in a vase...and I showed it to five different people, all five would see something different in the painting, and all five would be correct in what they "see". And yet, each might argue with the others about what they see as being the right sight. Then, if I asked the artist to tell me what he or she had painted, she might have an entirely different vision and intention. The entire world is in the eye of the Beholder.
So the written word is now art...
Is the first amendment open for discussion (no pun intended)?
What about the 5th amendment, is this open for argument about what it means? I think the original authors had a defined intent and meaning in mind when these things were written.
I don't buy that written word is malleable, meaning it can have different meanings. When somethign is written, as also when somethign is paited or drawn, the person doing the work has a certain intent in their work.
How often have you heard an artist say they are never understood?
Although I don't think the Bible is a piece of art in the same sense as a painting or a sculpture, it does have poetry in it and many parables and symbolism, but is the intent of the author being served its due process....that is the real question...
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
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Well, exactly! The written word IS art. The author, the painter, the landscaper, the dog groomer (sorry, I felt the need to get silly for a moment)...each has a certain intent for their work. This probably pertains to the written word more than anything else! But that does not mean that everyone who reads those words extracts the same meaning from them. The 1st and 5th Amendments are discussed all the time in my realm (law enforement) and I have heard multiple arguements over their meaning.
So...my belief is that the intent of the author (or painter or dog groomer) is very often NOT being served. But that's because humans are individual creatures with selective minds. That's what makes us so unique. That's why there are so many beliefs and religions and customs in the world. A question can often have many different answers...
It then depends on what the purpose of the scripture is.
You have scripture like Genesis which tries to explain how life came to be and you have scripture like Proverbs which are only laws.
Genesis is Mythos* and Proverbs is Logos**.
An instruction manual is purely logos (=science), you can only interpret the words in a manual the way the writer intended it to be interpreted by the reader otherwise it will not work, while Mythos (=art/philosophy) can be interpreted in many different ways.
The problem is when people confuse Mythos with Logos and insist that Mythos can only be interpreted 1 way; for example insist that Genesis must be literally interpreted. I guess that when people confuse Mythos for Logos it will only confuse them.
Quote:
*Mythical discourse attempted to express the more elusive truths, and was not expected to conform too closely with objective realities in the external world. **Logos however, had to be practical, effective, and accurate. On the battlefield and in councils of war, soldiers confronted questions of life and death. Instead of asking, ‘What is the ultimate meaning of this event?’ the men of logos asked, ‘What happened?’ and ‘What shall we do?’ Logos was driven by immediate, practical need, and it was vital that any soldier feel able to challenge the battle plan that would affect all alike, because the group needed all the expertise available. Karen Armstrong, The Great Transformations.
Well, exactly! The written word IS art. The author, the painter, the landscaper, the dog groomer (sorry, I felt the need to get silly for a moment)...each has a certain intent for their work. This probably pertains to the written word more than anything else! But that does not mean that everyone who reads those words extracts the same meaning from them. The 1st and 5th Amendments are discussed all the time in my realm (law enforement) and I have heard multiple arguements over their meaning.
So...my belief is that the intent of the author (or painter or dog groomer) is very often NOT being served. But that's because humans are individual creatures with selective minds. That's what makes us so unique. That's why there are so many beliefs and religions and customs in the world. A question can often have many different answers...
I understand where you are coming from, but does not the word have one meaning? Does a stop sign mean stop all the time or just when no one else is around? I haven't rtied that argument with a law enforcement agent, but I should try according to your reasoning.
I am struggling with the idea of words meaning different thigns to different people and I will explain why...
If we open the Bible to loose interpretations and say that every person can take what they want from the Bible, then we are welcoming our own demise as Christians. When someone can take scripture and twist it to mean whatever they want, what good is having the Word in the first place.
I just don't buy the argument that you can have different meanings and both be correct...just my thoughts...I may be wrong.
I understand where you are coming from, but does not the word have one meaning? Does a stop sign mean stop all the time or just when no one else is around? I haven't rtied that argument with a law enforcement agent, but I should try according to your reasoning.
I am struggling with the idea of words meaning different thigns to different people and I will explain why...
If we open the Bible to loose interpretations and say that every person can take what they want from the Bible, then we are welcoming our own demise as Christians. When someone can take scripture and twist it to mean whatever they want, what good is having the Word in the first place.
I just don't buy the argument that you can have different meanings and both be correct...just my thoughts...I may be wrong.
I agree with you. He is THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE. There is only one way and He is that way.
We have concordances if we do not understand scripture, there is no I interpret it this way and you interpret it that way. At the end of the day God knows which way He meant whether we like it or not. If we seek His will He will guide us into all truth. He does not leave us void of wisdom if we ask.
The main reason there are so many opinions, is because too many just do not want to believe that it means what it says ! It conflicts with what they think, or what they want to think, or what some one else says it means.
Wow, I couldn't agree more, Marianinark!
So, according to what you just said, when Jesus said "This generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place" (Mat. 24:34), we can truly believe "what it says!"
And when He told His disciples standing right there with Him that "Some standing here will not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" (Mat. 16:28), we can truly believe "what it says!"
And when He told Caiaphas and the ruler of the temple of His day, "YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven" (Mat. 26:64), we can truly believe "what it says!"
And when John wrote that he was shown the things which must shortly take place (in his day) and that the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10), we can truly believe "what it says!"
And when James wrote "the coming of the Lord is at hand" (James 5:8), we can truly believe "what it says!"
Marianinark, I do not mean to be harsh here, but are you taking your own advice when dealing with the time statements of the NT? Do not the plain teachings of these and many other verses conflict with what you think and, therefore, you do not believe "what it says?" Just asking.
Where things might be somewhat obscure, there are going to be differing opinions. But even when there are differing opinions, we should not be content to "agree to disagree." That is not acceptable when dealing with God's Word. We must continue to strive for understanding. BUT when things are plain and simple, (such as time statements), we should be willing to adjust our thinking to match the Scriptures and accept "what it says."
In an attempt to address the OP let's look at something that will not include a subject that people have such strong feelings about.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
I can read that, needing at the time to know that God is always there for me, and come to the conclusion that God is eternal. He was there in the beginning and will be there forever. You can come to the conclusion, needing to know that God cares for you, that God was the agent of creation. He created the heavens and the earth and he created you. He cares for the things that He created just as an artist would care for his canvas creation. The wonderful truth is that the Holy Spirit will use God's word to deal with you where you are and meet your need.
So yes two, three, ten people can read the same passage and come away with different interpretations. The same person can read the same passage, at different times in their life, and come away with a different meaning. Isn't that great.
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I guess that when people confuse Mythos for Logos it will only confuse them.
