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Old 09-13-2008, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,218 posts, read 60,933,271 times
Reputation: 30081

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
...
I believe God knows us in our mother's womb, and I don't believe He knows soul-less humans.
Nay, God knew us before the very foundations of the Earth.

God knew us when he was yet seperating the waters away from the waters of the deep.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:17 PM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,844,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Nay, God knew us before the very foundations of the Earth.

God knew us when he was yet seperating the waters away from the waters of the deep.
Agreed, and actually solidifies my belief that a fetus does have a soul.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,218 posts, read 60,933,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Agreed, and actually solidifies my belief that a fetus does have a soul.
LOL

Except for the fact that neither passage mentions soul.

A student of the Bible finds that soul is discussed by God, and defined by Him.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,821,991 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
LOL

Except for the fact that neither passage mentions soul.

A student of the Bible finds that soul is discussed by God, and defined by Him.
THe soul is the body and spirit connected.

We became a living soul when God breathed the breath of life into us.

We became His child when our spirits were created and were named in the book of life.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:47 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,418,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Agreed, and actually solidifies my belief that a fetus does have a soul.
Agreed.

Psalm 22:9
Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother's breast

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:30 AM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,776,174 times
Reputation: 993
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
To those who feel that abortion is a sin, is murder, and that this girl would go to hell, I would ask you: What would you tell her? To those that feel it is a woman's right to choose, I would ask: What would you tell her? What do we make of this attitude, this belief, this feeling, this utter fear of "sin" "murder" and "hell" that could very well result in a decision that devastates the lives of others?

What is the true definition of "life giving?"

I will support this girl in whatever decision she chooses. I have already told her that. I will not, however, endorse or support any aspects of potential suicide in someone. And no doubt, in her desperation, the crux of the matter is for her as it is for all of us:

How much loss can we, as human beings, realistically bear?


Take gentle care.
My Dear June,

I have only read this post so far. Out of curiousity, I will read on. I do not usually go into threads that in my opinion there is never going to be a "right" answer. Or at least, not "one" right answer. Abortion is such an individual choice. I guess that is why they call it "pro-choice". (Wow, there's an ah-hah moment.)

I remember posting in a very old thread that I was pro-choice and being hit by a fellow Catholic with how wrong I was for posting such a thing (since the Catholic church is completely against abortion.) I do not advocate abortion as a means of birth control and I am afraid that there are women out there who use it for that purpose. But, again, each situation is individual and personal to that person. We CANNOT know what is in their heart when faced with such a delimma. And for me, as I have stated time and time again, God will judge their heart. (JMHO)

I cannot say what I would do in this woman's situation. In my own life, I stand on the truth that God will not give me more that I can handle. And I can only pray that God never puts me to that challenge. Because if I were in this woman's shoes, I would be faced with the same thoughts and fears that she is facing.

She will be in my prayers.

<><
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:58 AM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,776,174 times
Reputation: 993
First, let me apologize for bouncing around in this thread. I really wish now that I have read some of it, that I could make myself just walk away. But, I'm hooked....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post

Do we (Christians) value life and agree that God alone decides who lives and who dies, or don't we?

Alpha,

This takes me back to a statement that you made in the "hurricane" thread. You said something to the effect that God gave us the technology to foresee certain events (in this case - a hurricane and it's path/strength) and that it was our 'choice' to heed the warnings or not.

What about the medical advances and technology that give is the ability to foresee the health of an unborn child?

And for full disclosure:
Let me make it very clear that this is a HUGE issue. I am clearly stating that I am pro-choice and that I am a Christian and that one day I will stand before God and perhaps have to explain this to HIM.

<><
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:24 PM
 
16,433 posts, read 22,106,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post




What about the medical advances and technology that give is the ability to foresee the health of an unborn child?

<><
We could have seen the genetic defects of Stephen Hawking and Helen Keller and in our human wisdom decided that they shouldn't live.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:13 PM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,776,174 times
Reputation: 993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
We could have seen the genetic defects of Stephen Hawking and Helen Keller and in our human wisdom decided that they shouldn't live.

Thank you for your answer, Bideshi. I do not believe that abortion is a choice that I would personally make. However, I have never been placed in a 'real life' situation where the question was needed to be asked of me. I am blessed with 5 beautiful children. My first born has a genetic disorder and in my last pregnancy I was diagnosed with an auto-immune disease that has completely changed my health. During all of my pregnancies, I opted out of having amnio because the facts that might be presented to me did not matter. Abortion would have never been a choice for me. But, again, I have only walked in my shoes. Place me in the shoes of another, and my choices may be different.
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:12 PM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,776,174 times
Reputation: 993
I have a scenerio for all of you who are so quick to make the "right to life" decision for someone else:

Your wife is pregnant with your first child. Something that you have dreamed about for a very long time. Maybe even your whole life (as my husband did). You are at your first sonogram and you see the heartbeat. The doctor tells the nurse that before you leave he needs to see you in his office. You sit comforably in his office clutching the picture of your new baby. It's not much to look at for now, but in just 32 more weeks you will be holding your first child. A miracle of God. The doctor comes in and tells you that there appears to be some complications. He states that your child is healthy but if your wife were to carry the child to term, she would surely lose her life. You will have a beautiful healthy child, but your wife will die. He also tells you that he is 85% sure that if you were to disrupt this pregnancy now, you will be able to conceive again and have no complications. I wonder if you are able to quickly make this decision.

PS: No matter how many 2nd opinions you get, this is still the outcome.

Are you positive that you will stand by your 'right to life' choice?
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