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Agreed. "Believe" is a present, active, participle; it's synonymous with "faith", which is a lifestyle.
And those who are living this lifestyle might not perish, but they might. ("Perish" is subjunctive.)
So why do you equate "perishing" with loss of spiritual salvation and how do you justify the contradictions with other passages?
Just how many contradictions are you willing to accept?
That is a strange question, since you just contradicted the answer you gave me a couple of posts ago !!! Your first sentence in this post is completely opposite of your answer to me.
Pertinent to the Greek verbal system is the aorist tense. The aorist presents an occurrence in summary. Its very name means α- (without) ορος (boundary, limit), an indeterminate or undefined action. The aorist describes an action without specifying its duration. The first three of the four verbs in the following Biblical passage from St. Paul to the Romans are in the aorist tense: confess and believe are in the aorist subjunctive second person singular, while raised is in the aorist indicative third person singular. The fourth verb, in the future passive second person singular, provides reassurance: "you will be saved!" As we learn from the last-minute conversion of the good thief in the Gospel of Luke 23:42-43, the Lord is loving, merciful, and patient - his forgiveness and salvation are available in the event of our conversion until the end!
It seems that you think that the belief starts and stops at a point in time in the past where I think of it as starting and continuing.
I have been looking at the greek meanings of the words because I agree with Marian when she says that the action of belief is an ongoing thing - when I believed in Christ as my saviour I did not stop that belief the second after, for me it is still happening now so the action started on a specific day but it is going on and will continue until I am made whole (saved) which is the future event.
I thnk that that action of believing is aorist (past single event - spanning the period of time from initial realisation to the point in time that you are saved) it is relative to the point of being saved which is future. The belief is one single continuous action that results in being saved (made whole) at resurrection.
One says believe once and you are saved, the other says be faithful continuously and you will be saved.
If the verses stood on their own, the rest of the words in the new testament would be unnecessary.
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Oh, I didn't know that salvation was open to the devils. Where is that passage that says it is?
Salvation is for all that repent, the verse is to point out that there are degrees or levels of belief. THat its not just a one time thought or act. It is a lifestyle according to ones faith in being led and filled with the truth of God.
the verse is to point out that there are degrees or levels of belief.
Well, sort of. "Believe" in the aorist is punctiliar action. It's an event. You can wish that it weren't all you want, but it is. That's what it means. If God had meant that you had to continue to believe in order to be spiritually saved, he would have used the present tense for durative action.
If you were to graph a verb in the aorist on a chart, you would use a dot. An event such as squeezing the trigger on a gun would be a small dot, and an event such as building the temple (which took many years) would be represented by a big dot.
However, if you believe in Santa Claus as a child, and you believe in him up until you are 10 years old, then stop believing, guess what? You have believed on Santa in the aorist tense.
So, you can believe on the Lord Jesus for a moment or for a lifetime, and either way, you have believed in the aorist.
What must I do to be saved?
"Believe [aorist; punctiliar; event] on the Lord Jesus and you will [indicative; it is something that will happen] be saved." Unless God's a liar.
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Originally Posted by freedom
THat its not just a one time thought or act.
It is in the aorist.
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Originally Posted by freedom
It is a lifestyle according to ones faith in being led and filled with the truth of God.
That would be "believe" in the present tense, which is durative in action.
John 3:16 has to do with perishing, not spiritual salvation.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth (present, active, participle) on him might or might not perish [apollumi], but might (or might not) have life aionian."
Perishing has to do with the saving of the soul; with life in the age to come. Not with whether or not one is in the family.
That is a strange question, since you just contradicted the answer you gave me a couple of posts ago !!! Your first sentence in this post is completely opposite of your answer to me.
Well, sort of. "Believe" in the aorist is punctiliar action. It's an event. You can wish that it weren't all you want, but it is. That's what it means. If God had meant that you had to continue to believe in order to be spiritually saved, he would have used the present tense for durative action.
If you were to graph a verb in the aorist on a chart, you would use a dot. An event such as squeezing the trigger on a gun would be a small dot, and an event such as building the temple (which took many years) would be represented by a big dot.
However, if you believe in Santa Claus as a child, and you believe in him up until you are 10 years old, then stop believing, guess what? You have believed on Santa in the aorist tense.
So, you can believe on the Lord Jesus for a moment or for a lifetime, and either way, you have believed in the aorist.
What must I do to be saved?
"Believe [aorist; punctiliar; event] on the Lord Jesus and you will [indicative; it is something that will happen] be saved." Unless God's a liar.
It is in the aorist.
That would be "believe" in the present tense, which is durative in action.
John 3:16 has to do with perishing, not spiritual salvation.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth (present, active, participle) on him might or might not perish [apollumi], but might (or might not) have life aionian."
Perishing has to do with the saving of the soul; with life in the age to come. Not with whether or not one is in the family.
By this definition of believe, the devils are saved. Which i find no scripture to support that they are.
Where's the Scripture that says that salvation is open to them?
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