U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 08-08-2008, 02:03 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,537,526 times
Reputation: 223

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
The Power of the Spirit revealing Jesus to us, while on earth. But there are those who claim the Spirit of God, right? If Christ has been revealed, the why the divisions amongst the believers?

1Cr 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So, you are assuming that the gift is common salvation?

Why?

This passage specifically says for the the age (singular) that is coming, which is the Millennial Age. Only saved people can qualify for this, but not all saved people will. Doesn't mean they're suddenly out of the family.

This is a grace gift that is only for many, according to Romans 5:15-16. Romans 6:22-23 tells us that the gift of God is aionian life.

Esther tells us by example that a gift can be given and can be taken back.

Ezekiel tells us that an inheritance is a gift. Inheritance is a family matter. Only those who are in the family can inherit, but if you are cut out of the inheritance, you are still a member of the family.

Being saved spiritually (born from above) is not a gift. It is a gift in the sense that it is not earned, but it is never referred to in the Scriptures as a gift. There is not a single example, by type, in which a birth is called a gift to the person who is being born.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
And?
Don't make the mistake of assuming that every reference to fire is talking about the lake of fire. Just because you, your part, or your works will be burned, doesn't mean that you're suddenly unborn. There is fire at the JSoC, and some people will be hurt by it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I fully expect that most of those who claim "Lord, Lord" to be judged. Not just according to their deeds, but their fruit. The question is, will the lamp be full, or half full?
Everyone, both saved and unsaved will be judged. But, it's the works of those saying "Lord, Lord" that will be judged, not whether or not they're saved.

Matthew 7:22 says, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

Notice that he doesn't come back and say, "No you didn't!" He doesn't deny that they did those things in his name.

He says that he never knew them (intimacy), and they are workers of lawlessness. They did it under their own authority, just as many today who work sign-gifts do it under their own authority, although they do it in the name of Jesus.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-08-2008, 02:36 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,537,526 times
Reputation: 223
Salvation from sin is three-fold. We’re saved from the penalty of sin. Of course, the ultimate penalty of sin is the lake of fire. But, the first penalty for sin was announced to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden: "In the day you sin, you shall surely die". The primary meaning of death is separation from God. In the day you sin, you shall be separated from God. The creature will be separated from the creator. Jesus, in his death, died to bring us to God. So, with the entrance of sin came the penalty of sin. The first aspect of salvation is that Jesus died to do away with the penalty for sin.

The second aspect of a salvation from sin is that he will save us from the power of sin, we let him, in what some call the present tense of salvation. If we let him. 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it". He will not allow us to be tempted beyond that which we can endure, but he will, with that temptation, provide us with a way of escape. "My grace is sufficient unto thee." (2 Corinthians 12:9) His strength is available unto us and he will give us victory over the power of sin and deliverance from that power if we so desire it.

Not only that, but one day, this savior will deliver us from the presence of sin. The amount of wealth, time, and energy that people expend in trying to do away with the presence and effects of sin is incomprehensible. There are conferences, councils, and meetings held around the world, all trying to figure a way to deal with the problem of sin. Groups that are trying to deal with the drug situation, the alcohol situation, pornography, etc., and that doesn’t count the ones that are trying to call sin "normal" or "alternative". But, one day the Lord is coming back, and he’s going to take us out of the presence of sin.

Just as man is body, soul, and spirit, there are three aspects to salvation.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2008, 01:20 AM
 
Location: California
11 posts, read 20,569 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
There is no contradiction, if one believes, then they Be and Live the teachings of God.

If we say we believe and do not as He says, then we are not really believers.

Even the devils believe to that extent, they know He is, yet they do not honor His word by living it.

godspeed,


freedom

I agree...Just sayin we believe is not enough we have to live the life...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2008, 02:12 AM
 
16,448 posts, read 10,807,370 times
Reputation: 9208
This debate, along with the trinitarian debate and the question of eternal punishment, go back to the beginnings of the church. Scripture can be found to support the various positions and I don't believe it is possible to know for sure about these issues based on scripture. They fall into the category of Rumsfeldian "unknowable unknowns". I do know which way to bet, however. If eternal security is a valid theological assumption, then I will be OK if I assume the opposite and earnestly try to stay forgiven and try my best to keep away from sin. If, on the other hand, I trust in eternal security as I continue to embrace the lure of the world's philosophies and temptations, and eternal security is not correct, them I will perish. I will, by the grace of God, stay forgiven and washed so that I will be ready when our Lord Jesus returns without warning.

I do not believe that salvation is like a membership card that you carry in your wallet or purse until needed on Judgement Day. If I am wrong, then the heavenly host can have a good laugh at my expense in God's Kingdom, but at least I will be there.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2008, 03:52 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 3,563,156 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
This debate, along with the trinitarian debate and the question of eternal punishment, go back to the beginnings of the church. Scripture can be found to support the various positions and I don't believe it is possible to know for sure about these issues based on scripture. They fall into the category of Rumsfeldian "unknowable unknowns". I do know which way to bet, however. If eternal security is a valid theological assumption, then I will be OK if I assume the opposite and earnestly try to stay forgiven and try my best to keep away from sin. If, on the other hand, I trust in eternal security as I continue to embrace the lure of the world's philosophies and temptations, and eternal security is not correct, them I will perish. I will, by the grace of God, stay forgiven and washed so that I will be ready when our Lord Jesus returns without warning.

I do not believe that salvation is like a membership card that you carry in your wallet or purse until needed on Judgement Day. If I am wrong, then the heavenly host can have a good laugh at my expense in God's Kingdom, but at least I will be there.
One thing is for a certainty. This world we live in is not a better place as a result of European Christianity as define by the hideous monolithic Churches that still exist today. Europe is almost totally Secular oriented and belief in God of any kind is a joke. The so-called Christian Churches here had their shot at making the world a better place and they failed miserably. They've also failed in the United States, hence they ride the backs of Politicians through the use of Evangelical Political Pressure Groups to have their warped version of morality forced and imposed through legislation on others. If you've watch the News these past years, these Evangelical Celebrity Icons that the average religious person worships have fallen like flies. When they fall, then these disciples of men are totally devastated and their faith ruined. WHY ???????

Jesus gave an illustration or Parable of the man who built his house on a foundation of sand and not a rock solid foundation as would have been the wise thing to do. When the storms of controversy hit these organizations, then it's really the average Church-Goer whose gotten the shaft and all because the worshipped a man (Reverend - Pastor - Priest -Rabbi -Mullah or whatever you want to call'em). Jesus said by their fruits you'd recognize who they really are. Only the hard core Kool-Aid drinking adherents will continue to make the necessary excuses for these criminals. One day, I have every confidence that Almighty God will clean house.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2008, 08:20 AM
 
16,448 posts, read 10,807,370 times
Reputation: 9208
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
One day, I have every confidence that Almighty God will clean house.
You have His written promise on that.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2008, 12:47 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,537,526 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by brneyz View Post
I agree...Just sayin we believe is not enough we have to live the life...
Then just how many more contradictions are you willing to accept?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2008, 12:57 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,537,526 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
If eternal security is a valid theological assumption, then I will be OK if I assume the opposite and earnestly try to stay forgiven and try my best to keep away from sin. If, on the other hand, I trust in eternal security as I continue to embrace the lure of the world's philosophies and temptations, and eternal security is not correct, them I will perish. I will, by the grace of God, stay forgiven and washed so that I will be ready when
Why do you assume it's an either/or and not a "both" situation?

The warnings are real, just as the promises are real. While the Scriptures explicitly state that security is real, they also issue great warnings about things such as lawlessness. (Doing what is right in one's own eyes. Often translated as "iniquity" in the KJV.)

Only thing is, the warnings don't include the loss of one's membership in the family, but in one's position within the family, up to and including being sent to "hell" (not the lake of fire forever and ever) and the loss of one's inheritance in the age or world to come. (This is "perishing".)

There are dire consequences and/or great rewards based upon our behavior.

But, being born from above is not earned, and once born, you cannot be unborn.

There are many things that modern Christendom look at as either/or when they should be looking at it as a "both": For example, justification. Another great debate. In one sense, we are justified forever, by the shed blood of the Lord Jesus. But, in another, we are told to continually justify ourselves for rewards.

It's the same with salvation: How many salvations does the Bible talk about? When most people see the word "salvation", the one that most people immediately think about is spiritual salvation, which the Scriptures straight up tell us are irrevocable. But, they see other warnings, such as "perishing" and immediately apply them all to the same thing, and suddenly, there are contradictions, and a great argument.

If we simply look at what is written, there are very few ambiguous passages, and whether salvation can be forfeited or not is not one of them. (I think that's why most churches quit teaching in the original languages; they would have to give up their pet doctrines.)
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2008, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,463 posts, read 2,370,419 times
Reputation: 816
I believe when you accept what Christ did on the cross that He paid for your sin past, present and future. So He already knows down the line the times when we will fall and fail in this life. He says our sins though as scarlet will be white as snow. He puts them in the depths of the sea and remembers them no more. He sees us as blameless through Christ. It is a free gift, not as a result of any work on our own.
I also believe that when God, who knows our heart attitude, and only He does, writes us in the Book Of Life that he has no eraser. If not then he is a God of fear who we are afraid if we fall in a moment that we are not saved. And we don't earn our salvation because how much is enough...that last buck in the offereing plate? It says our good works are as "filthy rags". It is Christ who has done the work for us and we only have to accept the work on the cross on our behalf because he loves us so.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2008, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 8,467,117 times
Reputation: 1058
Quote:
Originally Posted by driftwoodpoint View Post
I believe when you accept what Christ did on the cross that He paid for your sin past, present and future. So He already knows down the line the times when we will fall and fail in this life. He says our sins though as scarlet will be white as snow. He puts them in the depths of the sea and remembers them no more. He sees us as blameless through Christ. It is a free gift, not as a result of any work on our own.
I also believe that when God, who knows our heart attitude, and only He does, writes us in the Book Of Life that he has no eraser. If not then he is a God of fear who we are afraid if we fall in a moment that we are not saved. And we don't earn our salvation because how much is enough...that last buck in the offereing plate? It says our good works are as "filthy rags". It is Christ who has done the work for us and we only have to accept the work on the cross on our behalf because he loves us so.
THen why are we called to keep His commandments. Fulfil the law of Christ,
Everyman will be judged according to his deeds.

We reap what we sow.

Ask, Seek, and Knock

Seek ye First the Kingdom of God and His righteousness.

Go unto perfection

Walk the straight and narrow

Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving ourselves

Forgive that we will be forgiven
It is possible to have your name taken out of the book of life.



Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top