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Old 08-07-2008, 07:41 AM
 
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I have this in my bible Study notes. I dont remember actually writing this, so it must be copied from another source, but I want to start a discussion to see what you all think and what scriptures teach. So let's go!

As always we must use the scripture as the base for all of our doctrine. So let's see what the word of God has to say about the righteous man vs the sinner.


Ezek 18;

[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
[21] But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
[22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
[23] Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?


Now after reading the above verses I'm sure most can relate. We all have sinned, but have turned away from our transgressions and accepted. And according to verse (22) our transgressions, "....shall not be mentioned unto him:...", and we shall live.
Now let's read below at what happens to the righteous when they turn away from thier righteousness.

[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Now notice it said ALL of his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

[25] Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
[27] Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
[28] Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


So God asks the question, "....Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?"
They seem equal to me. When a sinner turns from his evil ways and follows God, should he not be rewarded. And on the other hand, when the righteous turn away from God, should he receive the same as the wicked that turned to God? No! When the righteous turns from God, he dies in his sin.
So is the righteous saved that turn away from God?

Now let's look at some more scriptures concerning the book of life.

Exod 32;
[33] And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.


Now I ask you, If the person, whose name was obviously IN the book of life had not sinned, would his name be blotted out? Is this person "saved" as long as his name is in the book?


Pslm 69;
[26] For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
[27] Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
[28] Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.


So again we find that it is possible for some to have thier name removed from the book of life. Notice whose names remain....the righteous.
Let's see what happens to those that endure to the end.

Matt 10;
[22] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Rev 3;
[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 17;
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world
Rev 20;
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21;
[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So, what do we know for a fact?
1. It is possible for a name that is in the Book of Life to be removed.
2. It is possible for a righteous person to turn away from his righteousness and die in his sins.
3. It is possible for a sinner to turn from his trangressions and become righteous.
4. Only the righteous names will be in the Book of Life.
5. He that endureth to the end shall be saved.
6. If your name is not found written in the Book of Life you will be cast into the lake of fire.

So here you have it. You can make up your own minds, but as for me....I will do like Paul;

[27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. I Cor 9.






Once saved always saved ? Nope .


See Matthew 13 3-9 (NRSV)
And he told them many things in parables, saying: Listen ! A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell on the path, and the birds came and ate them up. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and they sprang up quickly, since they had no depth of soil. But when the sun rose, they were scorched; and since they had no root they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and brought forth grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. Let anyone with ears listen.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:49 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,466,667 times
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That is an excellent post ! Thank you.
I totally agree.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:00 AM
 
3,758 posts, read 7,526,173 times
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I also totally agree.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:06 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,811,723 times
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Absolutly correct. It is hard to ignore these warnings:

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Hebrews 5:11-12
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again.

Hebrews 6:6
if theyfall away, to be brought back to repentance

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
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Most excellent, and i agree completely with the scriptures and the truth of living and walking in holiness.


godspeed,

freedom
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:48 AM
 
Location: God's Country
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I believe the Bible teaches that when we become saved it's forever, eternal salvation. This is not to say that people can't back slide, drift away from God at times, but I believe if a person is truly saved they will return to the Lord and that nothing can take away our salvation.

1 John 5:13 " I write this to you who believe in the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life".

Romans 8:38 "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from His love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and ever the powers of hell can't keep God's love away".

John 10:27-29 "My sheep recognize My voice, I know them and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from Me. For My Father has given them to Me, and He is more powerful than anyone else".

Titus 3:7 "He declared us not guilty because of His great kindness. And now we know that we will inherit eternal life".

If we could be saved one day and lost the next, God would take us out of this world the minute we got saved. Does is really make sense to say salvation is offered as solution for our sin and then turn around and say that salvation is taken away because of our sin? Where would be the joy in that? I know that I am saved and I KNOW it is FOREVER.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:49 AM
 
763 posts, read 2,004,655 times
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Do you accept contradictions in the Scriptures? If not, then there's a problem. Acts 16:30-31 tells us that once saved always saved is reality. It both asks and answers the question, "What must I do to be saved?"

The answer is simple and direct: "Believe (aorist; punctiliar action) on the Lord Jesus and you will (indicative; it will happen; not maybe) be saved."

So, you believe once, plus nothing else, and you will be saved, unless God is a liar.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,453,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgusano View Post
Do you accept contradictions in the Scriptures? If not, then there's a problem. Acts 16:30-31 tells us that once saved always saved is reality. It both asks and answers the question, "What must I do to be saved?"

The answer is simple and direct: "Believe (aorist; punctiliar action) on the Lord Jesus and you will (indicative; it will happen; not maybe) be saved."

So, you believe once, plus nothing else, and you will be saved, unless God is a liar.
There is no contradiction, if one believes, then they Be and Live the teachings of God.

If we say we believe and do not as He says, then we are not really believers.

Even the devils believe to that extent, they know He is, yet they do not honor His word by living it.

godspeed,


freedom
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Stanwood, Washington
658 posts, read 613,542 times
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If you trust the Bible and only the Bible, you will trust in Christ's blood along to forgive your sins (past, present and future) and in Christ's conquering of death to save your soul. If you mix man's wisdom with the Bible, as modern Christianity does, you will never be set to any answer to that, since man's ways change, and God's Word never does.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,453,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesandveybe View Post
If you trust the Bible and only the Bible, you will trust in Christ's blood along to forgive your sins (past, present and future) and in Christ's conquering of death to save your soul. If you mix man's wisdom with the Bible, as modern Christianity does, you will never be set to any answer to that, since man's ways change, and God's Word never does.
Jesus spoke of being saved twice. Each time He said...Thy Faith hath saved thee.

When He healed, He said, "Go and sin no more, lest a worst thing befall thee".

His blood paves the way, it does not cover wanton sin. That is a mockery to God. (not that, that is what you are saying) but man has sold that falsehood for too many years.

Galatians reports:
God shall not be mocked, what a man soweth, that shall he reap. Whether it be to corruption or eternal life.

godspeed,

freedom
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