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Old 08-08-2008, 10:51 AM
 
Location: New England
8,156 posts, read 12,241,516 times
Reputation: 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Hi JViello,

I hope not to be clumsy in this post. When some hear what you have written, they can take it as God will make them do this or that, by saying He is in ultimate control, we are created with choice and there are definite laws that govern the good and bad that comes from our choices.

THe admonition to Ask, Seek and knock are very important when it comes to learning the things of God.

I don't mean this to sound like a lecture, it is just easier for me to relate my thoughts by being direct.

All things do work together for good "to those that love Him".

If we say we love Him; We keep His commandments. We have a role in this life, and if we are held accountable to the things we set our eyes upon, whether they are of the Spirit or the flesh.

godspeed,

freedom
Keep in mind I said I was speaking of doctrinal things.

But, since we are a bit beyond that...I have to ask you a simple question.

Do you serve a sovereign God or not?

IS God ultimately in control, or not?

Does the Devil tell God what to do? Do we tell God "how it's going to be?"

I believe we can make poor choices and suffer the results. No doubt. But I also believe ultimately it's used for the good of those who love him...even if it's not fully understood by us now or for the rest of our life on this earth.

In matters of salvation, I believe God will not lose any who are his. His ultimate plan gets done. No one tells God "otherwise" in my theology...period.

It's a humbling, reverent and comfortable place to be for me. Kind of like being in your dad's arms when you were a little boy/girl.
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 7,974,257 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
Keep in mind I said I was speaking of doctrinal things.
Yes

Quote:
But, since we are a bit beyond that...I have to ask you a simple question.

Do you serve a sovereign God or not?
God's laws are exact, every seed produces after its own kind. We reap what we sow. If we sow seeds of weeds then they grow, If we sow seeds of wheat, then they grow.
Spiritually speaking, hate brings hate, love brings love. It does not have to do with sovereign as much as it has to do with His system, of which He is sovereign.
God shall not be mocked (so says Galatians) What soever a man soweth, that shall he reap.

Quote:
IS God ultimately in control, or not?
No, He gave us freedom or free-doom. If His gift is seen as control, then in your definition then yes.
To me Perfect Love is not controlling, it is letting. Like "Let there be" and so it was.

Quote:
Does the Devil tell God what to do? Do we tell God "how it's going to be?"
Yes the devil does tell God what to do. It doesn't mean that the Devil can make God do it. And yes we do tell God "how it's going to be" if not in word, in deeds, and we err when we live our lives like "this is how it's going to be".

Quote:
I believe we can make poor choices and suffer the results. No doubt. But I also believe ultimately it's used for the good of those who love him...even if it's not fully understood by us now or for the rest of our life on this earth.
All things work together for God's glory, because His system is Perfect. All things do not work together for those that don't live to fulfill the teachings of His Prophets and Son.

Quote:
In matters of salvation, I believe God will not lose any who are his. His ultimate plan gets done. No one tells God "otherwise" in my theology...period.
The question is, are we His because we say so, or are we His according to living according to His Kingdom and Word.

Quote:
It's a humbling, reverent and comfortable place to be for me. Kind of like being in your dad's arms when you were a little boy/girl.
For you i believe it is. Yet not for all that say Lord, Lord....
The traditions of man have watered down (better yet, Dehydrated) the truth, and made everyone saved, when truly many are called, and few chosen.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:36 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 3,832,328 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
So one that is walking in Christ who is the Truth they don't recognize what they have done or doing, but see and feel the heart of Him and act upon that.....This is what brings God the Glory!!! Allowing Christ nature to be our nature.
Good point! And what we believe should match up to the nature of Christ.

When I thought of this topic, the first thought that came to me was "peace". Following the way of peace. With the truth comes a restful settled feeling.. direction from the Holy Spirit doesn't often get us "all worked up" or "strongly emotional" but rather a calm feeling in our heart. "A still, small voice".

God's way is a balanced way.. the whole picture. If we are finding that we are strongly focusing on one issue, getting "all fired up" that God is giving us the correct interpretation, and this becomes the driving factor behind all our Bible study and sharing, in fact to us the most important part of our Christian life.. I'd say that a red flag should go up. The Holy Spirit doesn't work that way. It is true that there are certain times when we receive new light on a subject as God opens the door, but it all fits together, in a settled way, with what He has already shown us.

Truth will stand on its own. It doesn't need vast intellectual study, much reasoning, difficult searching, 57 different translations to be heard. It is just there, calm, peaceful, (tho at times with judgement) pointing always to God and away from ourself.
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:44 AM
 
9,538 posts, read 4,939,137 times
Reputation: 17599
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Good point! And what we believe should match up to the nature of Christ.

When I thought of this topic, the first thought that came to me was "peace". Following the way of peace. With the truth comes a restful settled feeling.. direction from the Holy Spirit doesn't often get us "all worked up" or "strongly emotional" but rather a calm feeling in our heart. "A still, small voice".

God's way is a balanced way.. the whole picture.If we are finding that we are strongly focusing on one issue, getting "all fired up" that God is giving us the correct interpretation, and this becomes the driving factor behind all our Bible study and sharing, in fact to us the most important part of our Christian life.. I'd say that a red flag should go up. The Holy Spirit doesn't work that way. It is true that there are certain times when we receive new light on a subject as God opens the door, but it all fits together, in a settled way, with what He has already shown us.

Truth will stand on its own. It doesn't need vast intellectual study, much reasoning, difficult searching, 57 different translations to be heard. It is just there, calm, peaceful, (tho at times with judgement) pointing always to God and away from ourself.
Yes, and AMEN!!!! And a BIG AMEN to the bold!!
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Old 08-08-2008, 12:51 PM
 
Location: New England
8,156 posts, read 12,241,516 times
Reputation: 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Yes



God's laws are exact, every seed produces after its own kind. We reap what we sow. If we sow seeds of weeds then they grow, If we sow seeds of wheat, then they grow.
Spiritually speaking, hate brings hate, love brings love. It does not have to do with sovereign as much as it has to do with His system, of which He is sovereign.
God shall not be mocked (so says Galatians) What soever a man soweth, that shall he reap.



No, He gave us freedom or free-doom. If His gift is seen as control, then in your definition then yes.
To me Perfect Love is not controlling, it is letting. Like "Let there be" and so it was.


Yes the devil does tell God what to do. It doesn't mean that the Devil can make God do it. And yes we do tell God "how it's going to be" if not in word, in deeds, and we err when we live our lives like "this is how it's going to be".


All things work together for God's glory, because His system is Perfect. All things do not work together for those that don't live to fulfill the teachings of His Prophets and Son.


The question is, are we His because we say so, or are we His according to living according to His Kingdom and Word.


For you i believe it is. Yet not for all that say Lord, Lord....
The traditions of man have watered down (better yet, Dehydrated) the truth, and made everyone saved, when truly many are called, and few chosen.

godspeed,

freedom
Freedom, I would appreciate if you stopped telling me "how it is", and express it as your view. Perhaps, maybe - just a chance...you could be wrong.

I believe you are wrong in some areas and certainly can back up my viewpoint, but for the sake of making things ugly, I'll leave it to our sovereign God to work out.

I respect your view, I hope someday you will learn to respect mine.

Blessings,

Jay
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 7,974,257 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello View Post
Freedom, I would appreciate if you stopped telling me "how it is", and express it as your view. Perhaps, maybe - just a chance...you could be wrong.

I believe you are wrong in some areas and certainly can back up my viewpoint, but for the sake of making things ugly, I'll leave it to our sovereign God to work out.

I respect your view, I hope someday you will learn to respect mine.

Blessings,

Jay

Uh oh , i think i'm offending, that is not my intention.

I thought we were having a discussion, i'll hope to do better at expressing my pov in the future.

I tend not to fill up my posts with disclaimers, you are making me rethink how i deliver what i believe.

Hopefully no harm done, i do respect your belief.... i have a habit of refining and straining at dialogue and tend to push it to the highest way possible.
In my opinion ofcourse.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:18 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 9,945,731 times
Reputation: 1525
Originally Posted by cg81
Quote:
Avoiding Deception: Walking in the Way of Truth
I don't avoid deception, I confront it head-on.
Than again Iím an Aries, so butting heads is my way of life.
And my preferred method to find the truth.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:28 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 3,832,328 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
I don't avoid deception, I confront it head-on.
Maybe a better way would have been to say "avoiding being deceived". To avoid confronting deception is not what I meant... in fact, the opposite.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:32 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 9,945,731 times
Reputation: 1525
Originally Posted by cg81
Quote:
Maybe a better way would have been to say "avoiding being deceived".
In that case my answer is still the same:
Confront discrepancies head-on.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:39 PM
 
Location: ARK-KIN-SAW
3,433 posts, read 6,361,818 times
Reputation: 1529
how do i "try" and avoid being decieved? Partly thru experience, and I believe thru Gods guidance. I forget wheres its at, but the Bible says test everything..no I dont go grab the Bible everytime I I have a question..maybe I should but I dont. Testing to me also means kinda like forming a hypothesis..is this a bad thing? will it lead me away from God? is it good for me? maybe I should just sit back and wait and see where this is going before I jump into it..that has helped me out alot..also listening alot. I think i do it subconsiently..you know when you get that tug on your heart that something isnt right and you need to check into it some more..that back away slowly feeling. I think its the Holy Spirit sometimes I just fail to listen, or dont wanna listen and thats when i get in trouble.

Deception is kinda like snorkeling in the ocean..you just have a small look in the water where its shallow and the shore is close..and before you know it, your 100 yards out away from shore and didnt even realize you were moving away.
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