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Yes, all non-believers love to play the "that's been said for centuries and it hasn't happened yet" card. There's one big difference in the date settings and fear mongering of the past and the present situation....biblical prophecy is being fulfilled.
Which is exactly what these "prophets" have said every time. "They were wrong before, but this time look around the prophecies are being fulfilled"
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Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
AND the Bible says that in the last days (which we are soooooo in) that persecution of Christians will increase.
But that isn't happening. Perhaps some would make the case that it is happening in the USA. I don't think so, but leave that aside. How about the death of Communist Europe and the vast numbers of believers who were persecuted there, and are not any more. We have more places in the world where you can be a believer without fear than we did 50 years ago.
So my question is this. Why do you care if Christians are silenced? I mean that would indicate that the rapture is near and that is a good thing right?
Because I am a Christian....that's why I care. I don't see what kind of point you are trying to make. Christians being silenced is only one of the many signs of the end times. The rapture could happen at any time, and as a Christian I love my fellow man and do not wish to see anyone perish or have to suffer through the tribulation.
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So... shouldn't someone is is ready to meat the Lord not really care that Christians are being silenced.. since again.. that would be fulfilling the rapture and thus.. like Martha Stewart said.. "its a good thing".
Again, don't see your point. The Bible tells all Christians to warn of the things to come. It's a commandment from God......that and love is why we care.
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I guess its hard for me to wrap my head around someone such as yourself not wanting Christian persecution and silencing as I gather from your previous posts you believe the end is near. Why stop a wheel in motion? Why be upset by it? Why push for prayer in school when that would in effect stop the wheel that you believe is already in motion?
Because even after the rapture there is much work to be done. There will be people during the tribulation that will become martyrs for Christ because of what they heard or read from Christians before they all disappeared.
There will be plenty of so-called "Christians" left behind also, that really weren't Christians. Just because someone doesn't believe now doesn't mean they won't believe later. The perfect scenario is that they accept Christ now and avoid the tribulation.
But because the Bible tells us that this won't happen, Christians have to do all that we can to push for the things of God while we are here. It's all about wanting everyone to go with us to meet the Lord, but that's not going to happen so it's imperative that those left behind are informed enough to know what is happening.
It's been my experience that atheists/nonbelievers do not research the Bible for themselves. It all may seem fairytale-ish or unbelievable now to nonbelievers, but the things to come will make believers out of them. And discussions such as this with believers will be remembered by nonbelievers when the tribulation begins. Some will curse God, and some will embrace Him.
It's important to me and many others that boards such as this are full of truthful information about God and the Bible for future use. People will be seeking for answers and the truth, and they will be able to find it here, hopefully.
Unless there is a magnetic pulse. The written Word of God which is the Bible will always survive to the end, because it will be written on people's hearts and in their memories. It can't be destroyed.
Just because someone doesn't believe now doesn't mean they won't believe later. The perfect scenario is that they accept Christ now and avoid the tribulation.
But because the Bible tells us that this won't happen, Christians have to do all that we can to push for the things of God while we are here. It's all about wanting everyone to go with us to meet the Lord, but that's not going to happen so it's imperative that those left behind are informed enough to know what is happening.
I guess I don't understand and trust me.. its probably me and not you..
1. You say just because some don't believe now doesn't mean they won't believe later (so silencing of Christians now has no affect right? Thus no reason to worry about it)
2. You say the perfect scenario is that they accept now. However, you say that won't happen. I agree. So that would default us back to point #1 which says some don't believe now but may believe later.
3. You say we have to do all that we can to push for things of God while we are here. Yet you said in #2 that we already know we can push as hard as we like and not all will accept now anyway. Thus defaulting us back to point #1
I guess my point/question is silencing of christians does nothing to change things. It has zero effect.
My example:
Lets say for example every Christian on earth was silenced. Thus some don't have an option to learn about the Christian religion. Bam.. rapture happens. Those that don't know.. will quickly know.. those that were informed and decided against it before the rapture will certainly know quickly..
So in the end.. the silencing of christians does nothing to change things. It has zero effect.
I'm not saying this as fact. I'm just outlining the way I'm reading things concerning rapture, end times etc.
It seems that I am being silenced in the USA. When it comes to Christianity in the USA I always wonder what their aim is? Do they prefer quantity or do they prefer quality?
Determining quantity is easy, but doing this for quality is a whole other ballgame.
If the American Christians prefer quantity over quality they should be silenced, because whenever this happens their gospel becomes so watered down (read: become just propaganda) that their religion is nothing more than the simplest of advertisement that will apply to the greatest common denominator just so they appeal to everyone.
And the fact is that the greatest common denominator is fear.
But when you examine the quantity of Christian denominations you'll see that quantity only diminishes the quality of the religion.
How can so many Christians speak with a different mouth? They disagree on mostly everything that is being said amongst themselves.
I guess that because I am not a true Christian (I'm more a free thinker) I do not have to toe the (Christian) party line.
And I still haven’t seen the link in the op because I have no intention to sign on to a board which I suspect of only being used as a propaganda tool.
Is the reason that I have to sign in not to determine the quantity of the people who visited that board?
I guess I don't understand and trust me.. its probably me and not you..
1. You say just because some don't believe now doesn't mean they won't believe later (so silencing of Christians now has no affect right? Thus no reason to worry about it)
2. You say the perfect scenario is that they accept now. However, you say that won't happen. I agree. So that would default us back to point #1 which says some don't believe now but may believe later.
3. You say we have to do all that we can to push for things of God while we are here. Yet you said in #2 that we already know we can push as hard as we like and not all will accept now anyway. Thus defaulting us back to point #1
I guess my point/question is silencing of christians does nothing to change things. It has zero effect.
My example:
Lets say for example every Christian on earth was silenced. Thus some don't have an option to learn about the Christian religion. Bam.. rapture happens. Those that don't know.. will quickly know.. those that were informed and decided against it before the rapture will certainly know quickly..
So in the end.. the silencing of christians does nothing to change things. It has zero effect.
I'm not saying this as fact. I'm just outlining the way I'm reading things concerning rapture, end times etc.
Trying to silence Christians and actually being able to do it are two different things. It would be very hard to silence me.
I think that I've explained it as clearly and precisely as I possibly can. If you don't think that trying to remove God's Word as truth and silencing Christians is a major problem, then there's probably not anything I can do to change your mind or show you how it would be detrimental to society.
Trying to silence Christians and actually being able to do it are two different things.
Thats my point. At least one of them.
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Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
I think that I've explained it as clearly and precisely as I possibly can. If you don't think that trying to remove God's Word as truth and silencing Christians is a major problem, then there's probably not anything I can do to change your mind or show you how it would be detrimental to society.
I don't think silencing some Christians is a problem. Some Christians can give all other Christians a bad name.
For instance, I'd like to silence Fred Phelps.
The problem inherently lies with what is God's Word as truth. As I've found on this message board there are many conflicting interpretations of core tenants of the Christian faith.
I can only assume that the videos Jviello posted have something to do with prayer in school or protests. I don't know. I asked for an explanation earlier (and I believe Alpha has now asked also).
So for example. Lets assume that it is prayer in school:
What interepretation of the doctrine do we use? Do we use the one that says only by faith are we accepted into heaven. Or do we use the one that says only by works? Or do we accept the one that says by works and faith? See where this is going?
Who is right? Who is wrong?
Ultimately, in my mind, its not up to my government to determine that for me.
Maybe the videos talk about Christian discrimination. Well there are laws against discrimination based on religion so that can't be it. Thats illegal.
Maybe the videos talk about Christians not being able to peacefully protest. My guess is the videos speak to an incident in which Christians interrupted a Gay & Lesbian parade. Just my quess.. but I bet I'm right.
There is no municipality in its right mind in this country that would bar a Christian group from marching or protesting as long as the rules of law are followed (file a request to march/protest etc in public).
If by chance a municpality decided against that course of action I'm fairly certain the dreaded ACLU would step in to help as they've done so in the past.
Anyway.. I'll withhold any more posts on the subject until the content of the video's is explained.
A wise man once said: "The survival of theBible through the ages is very difficult to explain if it is not in truth the word of God. Books are like men --- dying creatures. A very small percentage of books survive more than twenty years, a yet smaller percentage last a hundred years and only a very significant fraction represent those which lived a thousand years. Amid the wreck and ruin of ancient literature the Holy Bible stands out like the last survivor of an otherwise extinct race, and the very fact of the Bible's continued existence is an indication that like it's Author it is indestructible."
A.W. Pink
One thing we can be sure of: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My Words shall not pass away." Astonishingly as this may seem, this won't stop the onslaught of evil being brought against this most venerated book. Sinful man is determined! He's tried in every possible way to put a stop to the spread of the Gospel; he stands resolute in his attack.
Yes "Hate Speech" is the new mantra of our day. Believe what I say, while unconcerned Christians remain complacent, evil men will push forward with their attacks and the direction in which we see the U.S. heading will continue undeterred.
All believers must make the decision to stand up for God and His Word; we must not remain in a state of apathy and do nothing to counter-act the works of the devil or he wins. We must make a stand, or take a stand for Our Lord Jesus! No one said standing would be easy. For while we stand we are attacked, and as we preach the Gospel many will not hear, and many who hear will attack us for our belief.
Persecution isn't pretty. Never has been, never will be and it isn't anything we should be looking forward to, but we should be prepared for it's eventual arrival. And it's here. Thank God we serve an Almighty God! Who is able to keep us until His coming. Or if we die in Christ Jesus, so we shall be with Him forever. This is not the time to be fearful my friends. God will see us through! Jesus is the Author and finisher of our faith. Stand firm on His word and when you get to Heaven you will hear Him say "Well done, good and faithful servant......enter thou into the joy of thy lord." Matthew 25:23.
Can you give us some examples of what these videos show for those that can't view them?
A link like this without any commentary makes it difficult to know what is and is not on topic.
Clear this up so the thread can stay open and on topic.
Thanks.
Hmm, tough one as the video's have multiple "accounts" of "real" cases. My purpose was for folks to view the vids and comment on them and perhaps further the discussion
I'll post some links to the topic of the OP. Some of them were/are covered i the video's.
City of Modesto excludes Christian speech from public square
ADF: City of Modesto excludes Christian speech from public square - Alliance Defense Fund - Defending Our First Liberty (http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/news/pressrelease.aspx?cid=4617 - broken link)
There is a lot more out there. I will post more links as time allows to help further the discussion.
Thanks for the request Alpha, hope that's enough for now.
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It all may seem fairytale-ish or unbelievable now to nonbelievers, but the things to come will make believers out of them. And discussions such as this with believers will be remembered by nonbelievers when the tribulation begins. Some will curse God, and some will embrace Him.
I guess that because I am not a true Christian (I'm more a free thinker) I do not have to toe the (Christian) party line.
