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from my post #41 above:
"which God, who does not lie promised before the beginning of eternity (literally: before times aeonian)" (Tit 1:2)
This demonstrates the confusion due to inconsistently translating with various words one underlying word in the original and that the underlying word cannot mean endless time, or eternity.
What you say is so wonderful! It is thought to be the farthest view into the future that the Bible gives us. God as all in all . . .
Rev 21:4, "...neither shall there be any more pain..." I consider myself free to believe this clear statement in the ulimited way it was spoken. Whatever pain did will have been done. It has no more usefulness already for that deathless, incorruptible and ascended state Jesus has entered into. Consider also that we are members of one another, and members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. (Eph 4:25; 5:30) We are already connected to His body of glory that now sits on the Mercy Throne. This, "No more pain" He says, "It has been done!" (Rev 21:6, literal)
Yes James,
It is a wonderful message, Jesus will search and find the lost and perished.
While in this physical life we are perishing it is after death that when those that have not been redeemed are lost, Jesus said he came to save not the righteous but the lost.
The worst possible ideas that humans can think, this comprises the popular "hell." So, since it is the utmost extreme evil imaginable, it must be attributed to God, says the wicked heart of man. Then it is ensconced in their religious traditions and bureaucracy, giving it human authority. It becomes binding to those who care more for the praise of men rather than the praise that comes from God alone. It is that impulse to idolatry which is so hard to eradicate from the human heart. It shows in their faithfulness to dead systems of doctrine rather than the mystery of the Word made flesh unfolding according to Holy Writ. Their devotion to dead images shows in their making love to carnal hierarchies of authority, men over other men, rather than fellowshipping with living men in direct intimacy with the living God which marks the true Church.
Simple presentations of Bible facts, really only a handful of crucial Scripture passages to comb over, checking the original languages, are not persuasive to those who are trapped in Babylon's cage. Once in a while, here and there, someone gets serious with God, willing to submit to change what they say according to God's word regardless of persecution. Some few are coming out to the Lord to rebuild a house for His presence, a many membered body functioning by the leading of the Holy Spirit rather than being audiences for a few paid professionals appealing to the largest donor base. This doctrine is only one area to be corrected. But God will have a people who are kept by Him from bowing the knee to the Baals set up all around in this time of great apostasy.
Jesus must have been delusional, demon possessed, or one of those lame Samaritan's that the Hebrews said he was many years age. Jesus couldn't be right. Could he? He talked more about Hell than about the kingdom of the Lord when he was on earth.
Jesus talked more about hell than the kingdom of the Lord? Is that insider knowledge?
"The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The 'eternal state' is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the "final perfection" yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God." -Vladimir M. Gelesnoff-
Yes hell exists, Jesus spoke about it more than Heaven, simple as that.
Simple indeed! Unfortunately it simply is not true.
Shall God do that which He abhors?
Shall He command that bondmen and debtors be freed, and yet Himself keep those who are in worse bondage and under a greater debt in endless imprisonment? Shall He bid us care for widows and orphans, and Himself forget this widowed nature, which has lost its Head and Lord, and those poor orphan souls which cannot cry, Abba, Father? Shall He limit punishment to forty strips, 'lest thy brother seem vile,' and Himself inflict more upon those who though fallen still are His children? Is not Christ the faithful Israelite, who fulfills the law; and shall He break it in any one of these particulars? Shall He say, 'Forgive till seventy times seven,' and Himself not forgive except in this short life? Shall He command us to 'overcome evil with good,' and Himself, the Almighty, be overcome of evil? Shall He judge those who leave the captives unvisited, and Himself leave captives in a worse prison for ever unvisited? Does He not again and again appeal to our own natural feelings of mercy, as witnessing 'how much more' we may expect a larger mercy from our 'Father which is in heaven'? (St. Matt. 7: 6-11.) If it were otherwise, might not the adversary reproach, and say, Thou that teachest and judgest another, teachest Thou not thyself? Not thus will God be justified. But, blessed be His Name, He shall in all be justified. And when in His day He opens 'the treasures of the hail,' and shews what sweet waters He can bring out of hard hailstones; when He unlocks "the place where light now dwells" shut up, and reveals what light is hid in darkness and hardness, as we see in coal and flint, those silent witnesses of the dark hard hearts, which God can turn to floods of light; when we have "taken darkness to the bound thereof," (Job. 38: 19, 20.) and have seen not only how "the earth is full of God's riches," but how He has laid up the depths in storehouses; (Psa. 106:24; and 33: 7.) in that day when "the mystery of God is finished," and He has destroyed them which corrupt the earth," (Rev. 11:18)--then shall it be seen how truly God's judgments are love, and that 'in very faithfulness He hath afflicted us.' (Psa. 119:75)
It is made up. The concept existed in several, but not all ancient cultures, starting with the Greeks concept of the "underworld" which quite literally existed under the ground (The top gods, remember, lived atop Mt Olympus). Much of the Roman Pantheon was borrowed from Grecian mythology. SO yes the concept of hell in some form, although not the Christian Hybrd of Hell would have been in some cultures during the early formation of Christianity.
The concept existed with Egyptian Mythology too, the river "Styx" And this is probably where it came into Christianity. Christianity is a hybrid religion of sorts, borrowing heavily elements of surrounding cultures and myth (Virgin Birth, Messiah, Hell, Heaven, etc) I think probably the fact that Egypt was enslaved by the Romans as was Judea gave jews and Eyptians a common enemy, and the merging of mythology from the two certainly is evident in Christianity, although Hell was not a major force until the dark ages, when Christianity became a "hell centered" religion. Certainly the Catholic church in Europe used hell based themes and imagery as a scare tactic.
Most of Christianity today is still hell centered, but not all; still we see Christian groups (churches) which focus entirely on avoiding hell as the impetus for the faith, while others do not place such an emphasis on it
But to answer your question, it is certainly a creation of man, I don't want to get into the symbolism and all here, but remember humans need some motivation to do anything, and hell is a great motivator, myth though it is.....i
Last edited by LargeKingCat; 02-20-2009 at 04:23 PM..
Reason: spelling
But to answer your question, it is certainly a creation of man, I don't want to get into the symbolism and all here, but remember humans need some motivation to do anything, and hell is a great motivator, myth though it is.....i
I've debunked elsewhere the notion that the existence of multiple versions at different stages of cognitive sophistication invalidate myths. On the contrary . . . they validate them as part of the Spiritual DNA for the evolution of our cognitive understanding as reflected in the various spiritual fossil records. The existence of actual "lakes of fire" (galaxies of suns) comprising over 70+% of the matter in the universe (dark matter) is hardly a comforting scientific correlation in physics. Just saying.
Yes, Hell exists, but not as most people imagine it. For starters, it's going to be a pretty lonely place. Not a whole lot of people are going to end up there.
Mystic, may i humbly ask you to disclose the conducive environment you must have (had) to arrive at such elaborate expression of wisdom?
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Is that insider knowledge? 
