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In this case, only my love, my friendship and truly living out the principles of the God I say I serve is the only way I know to change their minds.
I agree with this and that is what I do, among other things such as charity, etc...The Holy Spirit has given each of us the gifts that we are able to use to our best ..We do not all have the same personalities or abilities..Sometimes it takes years of searching and trials to find our gifts, simply because we look to others than God to show us what He has blessed us with..
It's hard to have non-Christain friends because as Christians we are commanded to spread the gospel. All our friends should have been witnessed to at least once by us.
If our friends hinder us with our walk with the Lord which is mostly the case, then we can't have them as friends any more, the bible says, we are not to be equally yoked therefore we should strive to look for Christian friends and spouses who love the Lord just as much as we do to help strengthen the foundation of our walk with the Father.
NEVER once in my post did I say anything was a hinderence to me. Also, don't tell me when something should be a problem for me. Just because you are discriminatory toward Atheists/Agnostics/Gays/Lesbians doesn't mean I have to be. And I can tell you I will never turn my back on my friends (be they Atheist/Agnostic/Gay/Lesbian etc) just because of their sexuality or what they believe, nor will I turn my back on my family for what they believe. God gave each of us different gifts. I was not given the gift of evangalizing. I'm actually very much shy in person. And before you say anything, yes I actually tried to do some evangalization when I was in college. I was just too shy. Ask any one of the nuns at the nursing home here in town (my family has been good friends with them for a long time), I've got a big heart and basically accept everyone. As I also said, one of my good friends (a lesbian) is a former minister who is a very spiritual woman and we have had many discussions on God and Faith (especially after an extremely bad call I had at work). After that call when everyone else on scene was going to CISD, I talked to her. So there is no reason for me to have a problem with anyone unless they try to force their beliefs on me, and even then that one reason isn't a good reason for me to turn my back on them. I had one Medic at work (while I was only an EMT-Basic) question how I could believe in God when in our job we see the worst happen. I shrugged at him and said, "Brad, I just do. I can't explain it any better than that." He accepted that answer. So again, it's not a big deal to me as we are all created by God. And No, I don't believe it should be a big deal (no matter what anyone else thinks).
NEVER once in my post did I say anything was a hinderence to me. Also, don't tell me when something should be a problem for me. Just because you are discriminatory toward Atheists/Agnostics/Gays/Lesbians doesn't mean I have to be. And I can tell you I will never turn my back on my friends (be they Atheist/Agnostic/Gay/Lesbian etc) just because of their sexuality or what they believe, nor will I turn my back on my family for what they believe. God gave each of us different gifts. I was not given the gift of evangalizing. I'm actually very much shy in person. And before you say anything, yes I actually tried to do some evangalization when I was in college. I was just too shy. Ask any one of the nuns at the nursing home here in town (my family has been good friends with them for a long time), I've got a big heart and basically accept everyone. As I also said, one of my good friends (a lesbian) is a former minister who is a very spiritual woman and we have had many discussions on God and Faith (especially after an extremely bad call I had at work). After that call when everyone else on scene was going to CISD, I talked to her. So there is no reason for me to have a problem with anyone unless they try to force their beliefs on me, and even then that one reason isn't a good reason for me to turn my back on them. I had one Medic at work (while I was only an EMT-Basic) question how I could believe in God when in our job we see the worst happen. I shrugged at him and said, "Brad, I just do. I can't explain it any better than that." He accepted that answer. So again, it's not a big deal to me as we are all created by God. And No, I don't believe it should be a big deal (no matter what anyone else thinks).
I am talking in general, never really pointed at you BUT the bible is very clear. It is very difficult to be a real Christian and remain faithful and strong in your walk in the Lord.
The answer is simple really, it's called, "sin" this is a fallen and broken world after Adam sinned, bad things happen in this world because of sin, an adamic nature in all of us and Christians are waiting for the day when God restores his Kingdom and rights the ship, the way it was meant to be.
I am talking in general, never really pointed at you BUT the bible is very clear. It is very difficult to be a real Christian and remain faithful and strong in your walk in the Lord.
The answer is simple really, it's called, "sin" this is a fallen and broken world after Adam sinned, bad things happen in this world because of sin, an adamic nature in all of us and Christians are waiting for the day when God restores his Kingdom and rights the ship, the way it was meant to be.
And in my line of work, I treat everyone the same until given a reason otherwise. Besides, it's your opinion vs. mine. lol. Everyone has a different interpretation of scripture, which is the danger that the Catholic Church warns about...self-interpretation of scripture since everyone's interp is different.
Besides, how do you know that these Atheists/Agnostics aren't in the "God Limbo Place" as Beth and I put it. That place where every Christian goes at least once in their life...doubting the existence of God or just feeling empty of Faith. To actually quote Beth, "I think many great Christian leaders of the past who also experienced times of feeling totally disconnected from their faith (Augustine, John Wesley, people of that nature) would say the same thing. God saves you. Something gradually happens that ends up having you no longer able to doubt God's existence... but it isn't in your control." It's in God's control. Not ours.
I thought I might make a few points as I am an atheist, but every friend I've ever had was a believer. I don't think I've ever even met another atheist in my life.
1. Belief isn't something you can just turn on and off. If you can't bring yourself to believe in something, wouldn't it annoy you if people tried to pressure you to do so? I could never believe in a god and if I claimed to I would be lying to myself and everybody else. I prefer honesty and the truth is, when I hear about the concept of god, I think it's total BS, but I don't say that to my friends because I am respectful.
2. Trying to preach to people does little to nothing. If somebody is interested in your religion, they will do their own research. Trying to press a religion on somebody would likely just push them farther away from you and your beliefs. Christians always say "Everybody hates Christians.", but that isn't true. Most are just annoyed at how many Christians think they can just preach wherever and whenever they want, but if people of another religion do it, it's "wrong". The problem isn't hatred for Christians. It's being appalled by the fact that Christians are usually the only ones who think their religion deserves a suspension of the civil rules, while even other religions who believe they have the 100% truth don't use these tactics. It's arrogant whether you think you are doing the right thing or not.
3. Christians already have their own issues to solve. They can't even agree on which sect of Christianity is correct.
Very good post Haazig...I agree with you..I would not try to make an Atheist believe what I do anymore than I would try to convert a Baptist to a Presbyterian, or a Catholic to a Pentacostal.. All I feel obligated to do is to love my neighbor as myself snd try to live accorfing to my beliefs..
Very good post Haazig...I agree with you..I would not try to make an Atheist believe what I do anymore than I would try to convert a Baptist to a Presbyterian, or a Catholic to a Pentacostal.. All I feel obligated to do is to love my neighbor as myself snd try to live accorfing to my beliefs..
If only more Christians had the same viewpoint as you...
And in my line of work, I treat everyone the same until given a reason otherwise. Besides, it's your opinion vs. mine. lol.
Actually, it's God's opinion, read the book of Paul, Romans, Corinthians
Quote:
Everyone has a different interpretation of scripture, which is the danger that the Catholic Church warns about...self-interpretation of scripture since everyone's interp is different.
The Catholic church should know first hand. We protestants do not worship Mary. Where is that in the bible? How about dead men and call them saints? Where is that? NEWSFLASH: You are a Saint, Christians are saints. Pope is the holy father? Where is that? God is the ONLY Holy Father- the bible says, that ALL fall short of God and that no man is good so where does the pope come off calling himself "holy"?. You have to go to a priest to get your sins forgiven....Hail Marys. Again show me that is the bible?
Catholics are the ones with the different interpretations.
Quote:
Besides, how do you know that these Atheists/Agnostics aren't in the "God Limbo Place" as Beth and I put it. That place where every Christian goes at least once in their life...doubting the existence of God or just feeling empty of Faith
.
First off. NO SUCH THING AS LIMBO: The bible is very clear, "It is appointed unto man once to die then judgement" Bible said, that we are children of wrath and if God is not our Father then our father is Satan. All Christians doubt including me because it's hard to believe 24/7, that's why it is so important and beneficial to have true Christians surround you with love and reinforcement.
e.g. One day you see a verse you never been able to interpret, all of a sudden it hits you , you are absolutely astounded, so excited that you run to tell your unbeliever wife, she says, that's nice. I am happy for you. She could never appreciate what you feel and because of that you are missing out on something even more wonderful. Sharing the Gospel with someone you love. What could be greater?!
I thought I might make a few points as I am an atheist, but every friend I've ever had was a believer. I don't think I've ever even met another atheist in my life.
1. Belief isn't something you can just turn on and off. If you can't bring yourself to believe in something, wouldn't it annoy you if people tried to pressure you to do so? I could never believe in a god and if I claimed to I would be lying to myself and everybody else. I prefer honesty and the truth is, when I hear about the concept of god, I think it's total BS, but I don't say that to my friends because I am respectful.
2. Trying to preach to people does little to nothing. If somebody is interested in your religion, they will do their own research. Trying to press a religion on somebody would likely just push them farther away from you and your beliefs. Christians always say "Everybody hates Christians.", but that isn't true. Most are just annoyed at how many Christians think they can just preach wherever and whenever they want, but if people of another religion do it, it's "wrong". The problem isn't hatred for Christians. It's being appalled by the fact that Christians are usually the only ones who think their religion deserves a suspension of the civil rules, while even other religions who believe they have the 100% truth don't use these tactics. It's arrogant whether you think you are doing the right thing or not.
3. Christians already have their own issues to solve. They can't even agree on which sect of Christianity is correct.
No offense but you really have no idea what you are talking about if you don't read the bible. It is a Christian's duty to witness to people and let God do the converting. Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life.
We are commanded to spread the gospel, to tell the good news and I would try to witness to you, all I want is 10 minutes of your existence, is that too much to ask for? I am not forcing you, just showing you the real truth. I am not holding a gun to your head <cough....Islam....cough> but lovinging, caringly witnessing. If you choose not to accept, that's ok but I have fulfilled my duty as a Christian and I will never bring it up again.
Here's an "IF" If the God of he bible is real and you die with your sins unforgiven and go to hell for eternal torment and suffering. Would you consider your Christian friends who never told you about the gospel, would you consider them really ever being your friend knowing where you will end up and not doing something they could to prevent that?
I am just asking
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 09-03-2008 at 08:00 AM..
Very good post Haazig...I agree with you..I would not try to make an Atheist believe what I do anymore than I would try to convert a Baptist to a Presbyterian, or a Catholic to a Pentacostal.. All I feel obligated to do is to love my neighbor as myself snd try to live accorfing to my beliefs..
Spoken like a true universalist. It doesn't matter what you believe. It's what God believes.
If you believe that your family, friends are going to hell and you choose to do nothing says, much for you as a Christian.
That's like a fireman seeing house in on fire but chooses to do nothing because the family who is unaware of the fire is sitting down to a nice dinner, afterall they are in peace and happy.
Makes no sense.
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All I feel obligated to do is to love my neighbor as myself snd try to live accorfing to my beliefs..
