Who Has Got the Possibility of Entering Heaven? (priests, sin, disciple)

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by Neil Turan

I have posted many things about Baptism.

Which of you which is Not Catholic or Orthodox (Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism), believes that Baptism is/must be a Sacrament.

Again, I am from the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch, an Oriental Orthodox Church, so a Church which you can Make it to heaven. I have family living in Minneapolis, I myself live in the Netherlands/Europe.

Only God's grace allows you into heaven to add anthing, I mean anything takes from God, takes from Jesus suffering and dieing on the cross for all of mankind's sins, to say, that we still need to do more is saying, to Jesus that his sacrifice wasn't sufficient enough therefore I, the lowly finite being will finish it up for ya'

This is totally against God's nature, He gets all the glory no one else. So if it's God's nature to get all the glory, why would He go against His own nature by allowing us to do works to get into heaven? Isn't that a contradiction?

[little elmer]

Consider His plan, His desire, and His ability:

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure. (Is 46:10)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Pet 3:9)

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15:28) (Don't confuse "may" )

Ephesians 1:10 is what we don't take into account when debating these things - God can both judge and redeem the same vessel.

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.

[Miss Martha]

Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal

We are not to judge an individual's salvation but we can point out to him his walk with the Lord, that is one of our duties as Christians

"Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.

"Judge not, lest you be judged!" (HYPOCRITICALLY) We can judge and the bible says so as long as it is done correctly, being in a loving, non-hypocritical way.

But only God can decide who is to enter into heaven. Not us. We are not authorized to sit and say "this person is going to heaven" "That person is not going to heaven"

[Miss Martha]

Originally Posted by Neil Turan

Listen SKBS, how many times do I have to tell this, I am saying that only four sacraments are neccasery for Salvation, Not Seven,

The Church itself must have had Seven, but for you are four sacraments neccesary, if you are of the Roman Catholic Church, I suppose you are, you have to fullfill 4 sacraments, not 7.

Why must a Church have had the 7 sacraments, because God commands us to do so, so dont ask why, if a church has 6 or less or 8 or more, than it is not doing what God told us to do so, that´s why they are a lyer, all churches with no 7 sacraments, or with 7 sacraments, but dont use them in a proper way like the Anglicanism, they say that only 2 sacraments are neccesary for salvation, Baptism and the Eucharist, but It is not true, Confirmation and Penance also.

Please list the Biblical backing for each of your 7 sacraments. You say that God told us to do it, so don't question it, but you did not even attempt to show where God states that we (the Church) must do 7 sacraments.

Bible verses would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[skbs]

If you are not Catholic... please stop draggin the Cathlic Church into the mud with your insane antics...

THIS IS WHAT CATHOLICS BELIEVE IS THE WAY TO HEAVEN...IN THE SIMPLEST OF TERMS...
Who Goes To Heaven And Who Goes To Hell?

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal

Only God's grace allows you into heaven to add anthing, I mean anything takes from God, takes from Jesus suffering and dieing on the cross for all of mankind's sins, to say, that we still need to do more is saying, to Jesus that his sacrifice wasn't sufficient enough therefore I, the lowly finite being will finish it up for ya'

This is totally against God's nature, He gets all the glory no one else. So if it's God's nature to get all the glory, why would He go against His own nature by allowing us to do works to get into heaven? Isn't that a contradiction?

Indeed, "IT IS FINISHED" sounds nothing like "I've done all I can do, now the rest is up to you...".

We SO underestimate Him.

[skbs]

OH and if you HAVE to recieve FOUR of the SEVEN Sacraments then what happens to the people who don't get married and don't join a holy order... who's parents took them out of the church through no fault of their own and didn't get confirmed? What happens if they DIE before recieving the annointing of the sick? What if they only get three and just don't quite make it tothe fourth? Seriously... it is just insanity...

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by Miss Martha

But only God can decide who is to enter into heaven. Not us. We are not authorized to sit and say "this person is going to heaven" "That person is not going to heaven"

I never said, we were authorized to do that, that is wrong, infact I made it clear on judging someone's salvation in my previous statement but we can judge, the bible says so.

If I know a Christian who's walk with the Lord is shaky, it is my duty to tell him so.

[beeveenh]

Originally Posted by CelticLady1

Did I say that God was not true? I was making a point that I believe that he does not demand baptism as a requirement to get into heaven. If one chooses to believe that he does, that's up to them, but I choose to believe that God is not a school yard bully, as though he were demanding lunch money in order for one not to be beat up. Seems to me that there are plenty of folks out there who also make God out to be who/what they think he should be, according to their ideas and image. So, it would seem I am in good company, though on the opposite side of the fence.

I hear what you are saying....it lines up with the scripture at 1 John 5:3
"This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,"
God created us and knows our limitations. He would never expect us to do anything which we are not capable of. Through the scriptures we get to know his personality and what His commandments are.

So the question remains...is baptism required, is it in the bible?

Matt 28:19
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them..."

Acts 2:41
"Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day"

Acts 8
12 "But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."
38..."Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him."

The bible does seem to point to baptism being a symbol of dedication to God after hearing the preaching from the disciples. Would that be any different for us today to symbolize our dedication? I don't see baptism as a burdensome act.

If you die without coming to an accurate knowledge or understanding, God reads hearts and knows your attitude and your cirmcumstances.

I would be careful to say that "if that is what God requires, then he's a bully". Maybe there were some Isrealites who thought putting lamb's blood on their door was disgusting and God would never require such a thing. In Noah's day all they had to do was get on a boat!!

Find out if baptism is scripturally sound, in the end it's not up to us

[freedom]

Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal

I never said, we were authorized to do that, that is wrong, infact I made it clear on judging someone's salvation in my previous statement but we can judge, the bible says so.

If I know a Christian who's walk with the Lord is shaky, it is my duty to tell him so.

What does it matter if one's walk is shaky, you just said that there is nothing one can do to add to their place in heaven.

Say your magic prayer and live in the world!

That's how the youth are hearing and seeing the adult Christian walk.

godspeed,

freedom