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Jesus said His discipes were given the same words as He was given and were sent into the world as He was( JN17). This goes to show that Paul was definitely an impostor since He did not use the words Jesus used. Such as;
1. I am the light of the world no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness because he will possess the light of life.
2. I am the resurrection and the life anyone who believes in me even though he died he will come to life and anyone who lives and believes in me will never die.
3. The one who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. I am the good shepherd.
4. I'm the bread of life. I'm the bread that comes down from heaven for a man to eat and never die.
5. No one see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above.
I had misread what you said in post #366. I thought you had written that Paul was appointed by God as apostle to the Gentiles. But you actually said that it was Peter who was appointed as apostle to the Gentiles as you are saying here.
While it is true that Peter was sent to the house of Cornelius who was a Roman Centurion to give him the gospel, the resurrected Jesus told Saul/Paul that He was sending him (Paul) to the Gentiles as stated in Acts 26:17.
Acts 26:16 'But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you; 17]rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
Minister, not Apostle...Where in your biblical quote does it say Apostle?...
Last edited by Richard1965; 01-26-2014 at 03:47 PM..
Dear Pneuma, According to the teachings of Yeshua, no one was supposed to touch the tares (son of the evil one) (until the end of the age (Mt 13:38-40), less the wheat is damaged (Mt 13:28-29). One of the signs of the time, which we are now in, is it is now open season on the Tares.
The writings of Luke are definitely in question. As to their unknown real authorship, the fact that they are not first person accounts (Mt 18:16)(Dt 19:15), that the self professed apostle and prophet Paul, was probably a major contributor, makes them ineligible to settle any matter. Paul's self proclamations of apostleship, and spokesman for God is "not true", according to the testimony of Yeshua in John 5:31. The aim for the "Paul bashers" is to get at the truth and establish the true foundation of the true church, which is the heeding of the testimony of Yeshua (Mt 7:24), and not the nailing it to the cross. As for the other gospels, they must meet the requirements that Yeshua gave, Mt 18:16 & Dt 19:15, plus they must meet what he declared "Scripture" Is 8:20.
According to church tradition, poor Peter was called a hypocrite by Paul, which was recorded by Paul's associate, the writer of Acts. According to Paul's associate the supposed writer of Luke, whose information was noted in Luke 1:2, that everything was second hand, was that Peter would be sifted as wheat by the devil. No, I don't think Paul was on Peter's gift list. As for fellowship, Paul was simply given a message to deliver to the Gentiles. He was later actually run out of town under the protection of 2 cohorts of Roman soldiers, and given no support from Peter, James, or any apostle. What was given to Paul, per his associate's writings, was an opinion of James, which was to be delivered by Paul, as any good postman would do, without claiming apostleship, to be delivered to the Gentiles. Apparently Paul didn't agree with the opinion, because his followers seem to have disregarded the opinion contained in text which James wrote. Hanging on to Paul's gospel of Grace, is like hanging on to a thin reed. Hanging on to the Pope, who claims the keys of David (Is 22:22), as the foundation of the church, is like hanging onto a peg nailed into a firm place, which will give way. (Is 22:25)
These are the questions I've had, even as a new born...It doen't matter what Truth I think is correct, if it is not Truth, it will not help me in the end...
Luke was with Paul during Paul's first imprisonment in Rome, 61-63 AD. (Col 4:14 and Philem. 24)
Concerning sources beyond Paul, who although not one of the 12, was certainly a local Jew
during the ministry of Jesus and knew much about it even before his conversion,
let's take a look at Luke's sources.
In the prologue he says "many have undertaken to draw up a narrative concerning the things that have been fulfilled among us".. Those many would be more than only
the authors of the first two gospels. He says he "followed up all things carefully from the very first", investigated his sources to their very fountainhead. "Even as they whom from the beginning were the eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have handed them down to us".. the Latin word that is used to translate this last expression is the root word for "tradition". Luke's primary source is the oral tradition handed down by the Apostles. From Acts 21:17 Luke remained with Paul during his two year imprisonment in Palestine. During this time he gathered up the oral tradition from original sources. His forst two chapters on the birth and childhood of Jesus seem to be indebted either directly or indeirectly to the Blessed Virgin Mary herself. Now, Luke's gospel and the Acts of the Apostles form two sections of what is really one single literary work. This is clear from the first verses of each book which serve as brief introductions. The unity of authorship of both Books is clear, and most of the observations which are made by way of introduction to one section of
this larger work are equally true of the other. Since the Acts was written at Rome in the year 63 or 64 AD, the Third Gospel must have been written before that date.
How could luke have interviewed anyone when he was imprisoned with Paul?...In Palestine?...
a few things you Paul bashers might want to consider.
1. Paul's writting were written BEFORE the gospels were, so why if he(Paul ) was false did not one of the Lords deciples in their writtings not tell everyone that Paul was a lunitic.
2. Not only do you bring Pauls writtings into question you also bring Lukes wrttings into question, thus the Gospel of Luke becomes suspect and if Lukes Gospel is suspect then what can be said of the other Gospels? What you have conveniently done is make the WHOLE Gospel of Jesus Christ suspect, but that is probably the aim for most of the Paul bashers anyway.
3. Peter and the boys gave Paul the right hand of fellowship and if Paul was a false teacher Peter and the boys take part in Pauls sin because of giving Paul the right hand of fellowship. Thus again making everything Peter and the boys wrote suspect. But again that is probably the aim of the Paul bashers.
Gospel writer John was the last to write meaning Paul wrote before John.
Doesn't John make many references to what Paul wrote ?
If Paul is rejected, then shouldn't John be rejected for accepting what Paul wrote ?
Dear Pneuma, According to the teachings of Yeshua, no one was supposed to touch the tares (son of the evil one) (until the end of the age (Mt 13:38-40), less the wheat is damaged (Mt 13:28-29). One of the signs of the time, which we are now in, is it is now open season on the Tares.
The writings of Luke are definitely in question. As to their unknown real authorship, the fact that they are not first person accounts (Mt 18:16)(Dt 19:15), that the self professed apostle and prophet Paul, was probably a major contributor, makes them ineligible to settle any matter. Paul's self proclamations of apostleship, and spokesman for God is "not true", according to the testimony of Yeshua in John 5:31. The aim for the "Paul bashers" is to get at the truth and establish the true foundation of the true church, which is the heeding of the testimony of Yeshua (Mt 7:24), and not the nailing it to the cross. As for the other gospels, they must meet the requirements that Yeshua gave, Mt 18:16 & Dt 19:15, plus they must meet what he declared "Scripture" Is 8:20.
According to church tradition, poor Peter was called a hypocrite by Paul, which was recorded by Paul's associate, the writer of Acts. According to Paul's associate the supposed writer of Luke, whose information was noted in Luke 1:2, that everything was second hand, was that Peter would be sifted as wheat by the devil. No, I don't think Paul was on Peter's gift list. As for fellowship, Paul was simply given a message to deliver to the Gentiles. He was later actually run out of town under the protection of 2 cohorts of Roman soldiers, and given no support from Peter, James, or any apostle. What was given to Paul, per his associate's writings, was an opinion of James, which was to be delivered by Paul, as any good postman would do, without claiming apostleship, to be delivered to the Gentiles. Apparently Paul didn't agree with the opinion, because his followers seem to have disregarded the opinion contained in text which James wrote. Hanging on to Paul's gospel of Grace, is like hanging on to a thin reed. Hanging on to the Pope, who claims the keys of David (Is 22:22), as the foundation of the church, is like hanging onto a peg nailed into a firm place, which will give way. (Is 22:25)
Pillar have you never read that the harvest was ready but the labourers were few? thus the tare were to be removed just as Jesus removed them.
And I do not think you know what it means to be given the right hand of fellowship. When this is done it is saying God speed and those who give their right hand partake of the ministry to which they have given their right hand too.
And like I said if Lukes gospel is suspect the so too are the other gospels, thus instead of following the truth as you say you are doing you are in fact denying the truth.
John and Paul do not agree.
Jesus taught accountability , Paul taught grace .
Jesus never once said the word grace nor implied it.
To compromise those things Jesus taught is false teaching. misleading .
Lastly .
On that day you are standing before the thrown whom will be on it ?
To call Jesus Lord and it not actually be true is a lie God is compelled to judge not defend.
Matthew 7;21,22,23.
The law of the Father , is with in a personal relationship via the Holy Spirit, Jesus provides His believer.
Where in His Lord ship is honestly realized.
Not by claim nor by education nor by noble deed, but by subservience that can only be realized knowing His voice.
And the Holy Spirit provides that.
Blessed are they that DO hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled.
Not by deeds you determine are good, but from God's perspective and instruction are correct for that event.
The contrast of repentance, is from self govern , to God govern.
Jesus said it is required of stewards to be found faithful.
Obedience to the Father goes beyond the 10, not ignoring them, but realizing taking instruction from God will put ones relationship to the test.
When Jesus was being tempted in the wilderness after the 40 day fast, the conditions of the temptation were not all relevant to the ten but one , the first one .
Love God.
Which is also to mean, Obey God .
The disciples were commissioned to proclaim this availability Jesus provided.
Not to name them selves in place of Jesus .
Jesus designated the Holy Spirit to teach in His place.
Not Peter, and certainly not Paul, nor any other man .
During Jesus ministry the disciples were not the only ones ministering in Jesus name .
This bothered the disciples, but not Jesus .
God knows the heart ,and the man that honestly loves God takes action with in himself. and even though Jesus name is abuse by others even successfully does not grant them approval. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
God knows men will deceive them selves with alterations and compromise.
Question is, what will you do with Jesus Gospel, How is His Lordship realized in you ?
John and Paul do not agree.
Jesus taught accountability , Paul taught grace .
Jesus never once said the word grace nor implied it.
To compromise those things Jesus taught is false teaching. misleading .
Lastly .
On that day you are standing before the thrown whom will be on it ?
To call Jesus Lord and it not actually be true is a lie God is compelled to judge not defend.
Matthew 7;21,22,23.
The law of the Father , is with in a personal relationship via the Holy Spirit, Jesus provides His believer.
Where in His Lord ship is honestly realized.
Not by claim nor by education nor by noble deed, but by subservience that can only be realized knowing His voice.
And the Holy Spirit provides that.
Blessed are they that DO hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled.
Not by deeds you determine are good, but from God's perspective and instruction are correct for that event.
The contrast of repentance, is from self govern , to God govern.
Jesus said it is required of stewards to be found faithful.
Obedience to the Father goes beyond the 10, not ignoring them, but realizing taking instruction from God will put ones relationship to the test.
When Jesus was being tempted in the wilderness after the 40 day fast, the conditions of the temptation were not all relevant to the ten but one , the first one .
Love God.
Which is also to mean, Obey God .
The disciples were commissioned to proclaim this availability Jesus provided.
Not to name them selves in place of Jesus . Jesus designated the Holy Spirit to teach in His place. Not Peter, and certainly not Paul, nor any other man .
During Jesus ministry the disciples were not the only ones ministering in Jesus name .
This bothered the disciples, but not Jesus .
God knows the heart ,and the man that honestly loves God takes action with in himself. and even though Jesus name is abuse by others even successfully does not grant them approval. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
God knows men will deceive them selves with alterations and compromise.
Question is, what will you do with Jesus Gospel, How is His Lordship realized in you ?
You again claim that Jesus didn't teach grace.
The apostle Peter disagrees with you. Speaking at the council at Jerusalem, Peter stood up and stated that salvation is through the grace of Jesus.
Acts 15:11 "But we (Plural) believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
Peter stated that they (speaking of both himself and the others) believed that salvation was by grace, in contrast to the Judaizers who were teaching that to be saved you had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses (Acts 15:1).
But I see that you don't believe Peter or any man as you indicated in your post. And yet, what was written concerning the teachings of Jesus were written by men under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit.
It seems as though you don't believe Jesus who said to His disciples,
Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20]teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
The apostles taught what had been disclosed to them by God the Holy Spirit as Jesus had told them the Holy Spirit would do.
John 16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13] "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14] "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15] "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
Do you still wish to claim that Jesus didn't appoint the apostles to teach in His place?
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