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Old 05-27-2010, 11:22 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
2,933 posts, read 2,183,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Oh. Okay. Thanks for the explanation! I guess we all have those moments, some people earlier than others. I'm glad your trek led you to UR instead of, well, those other places.
It was "those other places" that was part of the contradiction I saw that pushed me from christianity (I retained a belief in God) .............. love your enemies, God will send his to hell, and unbelievers are "wicked" but when I looked at the people around me actually the unbelievers could be nicer than the "good" christians. A lot of questions I had and I received the 'pat' answers that did not actually answer my questions, just made me confused ......
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:26 PM
 
Location: USA
5,596 posts, read 2,123,304 times
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Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Thanks, sparrow.

I just get a little sad when those that once believed in Christ dump everything because they start finding out what MEN have done to the scriptures and start finding corruption in the system.

I know this thread is about false apostles, but you don't have to throw out everything just because you find contradictions or half-truths. I say keep searching, and don't ever give up, false apostles or not.
I sometimes think that as well and for a while I tried to convince myself that was good enough. But, the thing is, if there is truth contained in the myths (and there's certainly no way to know that for certain), there's no way to know for sure what those truths are. What it comes down to is each person picking and choosing what sounds good to them. Which really isn't that much different than what we all do when we still believe that the bible is "god's word" but at least then one "knows" there really is a god and ultimate truth somewhere in the midst of all the chaos of men's teachings, buried in the scriptures just waiting to be found.

Some people are okay with an ambiguous god/reality. But some of us just don't seem to be wired that way.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:16 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 1,583,152 times
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
While the original twelve were hand-picked by Jesus, and were witnesses to the resurrection, that is not a prerequisite for apostleship. That the original organization of the Church (with Prophets and Apostles) was intended to be permanent in nature is pretty clear from the scriptures, and even to some extent from early tradition. Whenever an Apostle died, another man was called to fill the vacancy his death created. Matthias was almost immediately called to replace Judas. Paul and Barnabus were also called, even though the scriptures don't specifically mention who it was they replaced. Finally, James (the brother the Jesus) is referred to as an Apostle in Galatians. Look at the number of times in the New Testament the Apostles are referred to as "the twelve." This was an authoritative body that had been established under the direction of the Savior himself. Since only Apostles would have had the authority to call other Apostles, when all of them had died without replacements, the intended succession ceased.
Katzpur, you know I like you, but what a pile of stuff. So there's Abraham and there are prophets along the way that tell of the coming messiah. All this promise through the 12 tribes of Israel continuing on through the house of David columinating in the coming of the Messiah, God's promise kept. After eons, the messiah finally arrives. Jesus, the Messiah, hand picks his disciples, all, other than Judas, becoming an Apostle. Jesus hand picks Peter to start and head His Church on earth and when the last Apostle is dead, the Church is dead and all Authority is lost? And this is in just a few decades. Centuries of promise, and then a promise kept and a new convenent between man and God is created and is essentially dead in a few decades? If you are correct, then please everyone that is Christian throw your Bibles in the trash. It is worth NOTHING. It was created at the end of the 4th century after a few HUNDRED years of directionless folks with no Authority. CHUCK YOUR BIBLES NOW FOLKS. THEY ARE WORTHLESS and at best UNRELIABLE.

Every religion has a point that you must apply faith. The trinity, that Jesus was God, that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, that Jesus's death gives you the chance of salvation, etc. But that is at the end of the path towards spiritual knowledge. It's a big time red flag when your religion/denomination makes no sense a few steps down the religious intellectual path and you have to rely on faith two steps into your understanding.
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Old 05-28-2010, 04:10 AM
 
Location: US
10,428 posts, read 3,996,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Did you used to wonder if Paul might be a false apostle?
Like i've said before, i have studied or read just about everything...The Babylonian tablets that depict what is in the first few books of the OT are almost parralell...The point that Judaism is a piece meal of other cultural beliefs...The Fact that in every Culture from the Hebrews to the Mayans to the far Eastern Cultures there are stories about a global flood told in their unique style, but stateing the same thing and that is the world being destroyed by a flood...There is also a story going around that states that the Christian religion was devised by a Certain ancient family, i can't remember the Name, that wanted to control the masses...And then you've got the stele discovered in Egypt that depicts in Hieroglyphs the story of Moses and the Exodus of the Jews perfectly...This story also talks of the plagues of Egypt and modern science has been able to figure out what actually went on during those plagues and the fact is that God used natural occurences to bring about the plagues, but it still begs the question, that if there is no God, then how did Moses know what was going to happen and how was he 100 percent acurate?...there is a DVD documentary on it...
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Old 05-28-2010, 04:19 AM
 
Location: US
10,428 posts, read 3,996,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
Katzpur, you know I like you, but what a pile of stuff. So there's Abraham and there are prophets along the way that tell of the coming messiah. All this promise through the 12 tribes of Israel continuing on through the house of David columinating in the coming of the Messiah, God's promise kept. After eons, the messiah finally arrives. Jesus, the Messiah, hand picks his disciples, all, other than Judas, becoming an Apostle. Jesus hand picks Peter to start and head His Church on earth and when the last Apostle is dead, the Church is dead and all Authority is lost? And this is in just a few decades. Centuries of promise, and then a promise kept and a new convenent between man and God is created and is essentially dead in a few decades? If you are correct, then please everyone that is Christian throw your Bibles in the trash. It is worth NOTHING. It was created at the end of the 4th century after a few HUNDRED years of directionless folks with no Authority. CHUCK YOUR BIBLES NOW FOLKS. THEY ARE WORTHLESS and at best UNRELIABLE.

Every religion has a point that you must apply faith. The trinity, that Jesus was God, that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, that Jesus's death gives you the chance of salvation, etc. But that is at the end of the path towards spiritual knowledge. It's a big time red flag when your religion/denomination makes no sense a few steps down the religious intellectual path and you have to rely on faith two steps into your understanding.
Apostles were used for setting up the Churches and establishing Christianity around the then known world...after the churches are set up there is no need for the Apostolic positions...it is already established and now needs to grow...
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:41 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 2,957,370 times
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I've been learning the TRUTH! When you start to seriously study ancient comparative religions, ancient archeology, ancient history, astrotheology...it's hard not to find it. I seriously recommend it for all believers of any religion...it is imperative that they critically examine the faiths and beliefs they all claim allegiance to.
This is what I have done. I have taken everything in, and digested what truths are there, throwing out the garbage designed to enslave mankind.

The beauty of Jesus and of His Father, is the fact of setting the people who believe in Him free. Free to love. Free to give. Free to worship. FREE to live. This is what our King gave to us! A Kingdom not made with hands to be taken away from us.

All the other religious garbage designed around this basic, simple concept, is only designed to enslave both the soul, and the body. The IS NOT what pure Christianity is.

I can see the beauty in other religions, in their purest forms. God the Father is at work everywhere, in everyone, so that none have an excuse. It is only when men tamper with it, for control over others, that it becomes corrupted.

So, Christygirl, I hope and pray you continue on your journey. Sometimes we, with God's help, must wipe the slate clean before we can be taught, like a child. Both ignorant, and pure. Once a person 'sees' this, then all there is, is love.

But when someone has something to 'gain', by giving you something, then corruption is all there is left. Both of the soul, and of the body. Jesus' Kingdom is not soome far away never never land. It is here, now. But it takes an absolute submission to that Authority, which was given TO Him, for us to understand the Word that has been given to us. How many Christians are real, and TRUE enemies of THIS world system? Then, all that is left is the fact they are in BED with them, and they are Jezebel the Harlot.

And even the Bible itself is muddled. The translations are slurred to benefit the gains of men who desire authority. Otherwise, those who submit to Jesus and His Kingship would make the stand against the rulers of this world(kosmos). Peacefully, yet not backing down turning the other cheek, thereby stripping them of their supposed authority over us.

Sadly, we are led to the slaughter, because we listen to those who say they have our best interests at heart, yet desire our goods and labors for their gain and profit. The devil's temptation to Jesus, is the same for ALL men. The same temptation to Abram, by the king of Sodom, is the same to all men. It is called control.

So please do not give up on Jesus, because He will not give up on you. The lies, lay with man, not with God our Father nor His Son.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,852 posts, read 3,169,412 times
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You could certainly be correct. I've come to somewhat the same conclusion about the bible, but I still find myself hoping someone will provide evidence to the contrary. If you're willing to post what sources you've been studying, I'd be interested to know.
I'd really be interested to know how you came to the same conclusion.

For me it started with all of the contradictions, inconsistencies and just downright abominations I found in the bible that were attributed to a supposed all knowing, omniscient, omnipotent and loving god. When the bible is taken for what it truly says, god is a huge proponent of slavery and fully endorses it, that god is a misogynist and hates women treating them no better than property, that god revels and glories in the destruction of small children and women, and that god spells out detailed instructions for animal and human sacrifice because these are "pleasing" to him...and I continued on from there studying the ancient origins of the bible, god, etc. From there it progressed to ancient astrotheology, ancient archeology, ancient history, ancient mythology, etc. When you come to the realization that you've been mislead and fed a pile of dog doodie passed off as "truth" but turns out to be nothing more than a myth perpetuated as "truth", it's easy to walk away. It also makes you extremely angry.

I would urge anyone who has even a modicum of common sense to begin to critically analyze their "faith" and "beliefs" to find out exactly what it is they are putting so much stock in believing. When the rubber meets the road...this faith and belief can only be defended if one chooses to keep their religious blinders on and not see the actual physical evidence for what it is.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,852 posts, read 3,169,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
I agree we need to study and assess all things --- where my journey has brought me is to faith in God and also a knowledge that Judaism and christianity have used and added to what was shown to them of God for control of the people under them. That is my understanding.

At the time that I started this thread HotinAZ said to me "do not throw the baby out with the bath water" that has stuck with me........

I wish you well in your journeying.
I can tell you for certain that when I began this journey I also didn't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater but unfortunately the actual physical evidence didn't allow that. It's not been an easy journey and made me extremely angry at times to know that I had been duped for so long but my journey has ended and I am much better off...no longer living in fear of any kind of superstitious retribution, no longer living worrying about whether I stack up to some supernatural diety, knowing that when bad things happen...they just happen because that's life not because of some demented grand scheme of some demented god. I am free to live my life doing what I've always done; being the kind, generous and loving person I've always been...living my life to the fullest and enjoying every moment of every single day as if it were my last. I no longer need a crutch to get through this life and that is extremely refreshing and eyeopening!!
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:40 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 1,583,152 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Apostles were used for setting up the Churches and establishing Christianity around the then known world...after the churches are set up there is no need for the Apostolic positions...it is already established and now needs to grow...
How many churches did Jesus create? Answer: One. Is 32,000+ versions of the truth better for you or part of the plan? People always say, well, Christians of all kinds agree on the essentials. That begs the question, what are the essentials. Well, I would think the correct path to salvation is one of the essentials. Do all Christian denominations agree on that one? Heck no. Bottom line, if you think that Christians agree on the essentials, then you are completely delusional. So now the question becomes who is right and who is wrong and who gets to decide? You still think Authority has no place in the modern world? Again, if anarchy and chaos is your thing, then well, enjoy the protestant world. I prefer ONE truth, because quite frankly, that's all there is. And the Authority to create your Bible was kind of important, don't you think? Jesus didn't create the Bible. He created a living Church that He said He would protect until the end of time. Lo and behold, that Church is still around 2000 years later. Amazing! Jesus's Church to get Jesus's Authoritative Truth. Ah, it's very comforting.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,852 posts, read 3,169,412 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Like i've said before, i have studied or read just about everything...The Babylonian tablets that depict what is in the first few books of the OT are almost parralell...The point that Judaism is a piece meal of other cultural beliefs...The Fact that in every Culture from the Hebrews to the Mayans to the far Eastern Cultures there are stories about a global flood told in their unique style, but stateing the same thing and that is the world being destroyed by a flood...There is also a story going around that states that the Christian religion was devised by a Certain ancient family, i can't remember the Name, that wanted to control the masses...And then you've got the stele discovered in Egypt that depicts in Hieroglyphs the story of Moses and the Exodus of the Jews perfectly...This story also talks of the plagues of Egypt and modern science has been able to figure out what actually went on during those plagues and the fact is that God used natural occurences to bring about the plagues, but it still begs the question, that if there is no God, then how did Moses know what was going to happen and how was he 100 percent acurate?...there is a DVD documentary on it...
Perhaps you should look at the FACTS of when the OT was actually written....it's easy to make up stories/jewish history about events long after the events happens to other people and claim it as your own.
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