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There are some predicting that a rapture is around the corner--2008?
Is that true?
Is the word "rapture" in the Bible? Where do we get a concept of "rapture?" Where is it taught? When was it to occur?
Please answer with Scripture IN CONTEXT!
Preterist
p.s. I promise not to close out this thread just because you disagree with me!
Nope, it's not true.
No, the word rapture is not in the Bible, they refer to it as being "caught up".
1Th 4:13¶But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1Th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Sounds to me that this is talking about the first resurrection in Revelation 20.
I don't believe the thousand years is exactly a thousand years. I have read that was the largest number in Hebrew? so it just means a long length of time. Surely He is'nt going to give us the exact time as that would give away when He is coming in judgment, as I believe that has yet to happen, as I nor you have been to the judgment.
Also, we can see that the beast and false prophet are already in the lake of fire, but I do not believe the devil is, yet.
No, the word rapture is not in the Bible, they refer to it as being "caught up".
1Th 4:13¶But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1Th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I agree.. we can see that this is talking about an event at the end of time, because it says "and so we shall ever be with the Lord".
This will be a very public event, not some secret whisking away of the saints. I believe that this (false) impression comes from these verses:
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
As this is talking about "when the Son of Man cometh", and as He has not come yet, and as He will only come again one more time, we can say that these verse also refer to the end of the world and are symbolic of the great and final separation that will occur at that time between the saved and the lost.
I believe it to be a spiritual transition, having to do with the carnal mind being replaced with the mind of Christ (thus the reference of "descending from heaven with a shout") and that the dead in Christ are those who have not been regenerated, if you will.
I believe it to be a spiritual transition, having to do with the carnal mind being replaced with the mind of Christ (thus the reference of "descending from heaven with a shout") and that the dead in Christ are those who have not been regenerated, if you will.
so do you deny the resurrection of physical bodies?
so do you deny the resurrection of physical bodies?
No, don't deny it - just knowing that He knows how it'll get done and I don't have to worry about it.
My opinion on prophecy is that God has a plan, and He's the one that will carry it out. A lot of bad comes from Christians disagreeing on the small things, and soon it turns into riffs that divide us.
2Cr 12:1 Boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I knowhow such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows-- was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to weaknesses. For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees me or hears from me. Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself! Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
1Th 4:13¶But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1Th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This passage... by useage of the word "we" ... very clearly demonstrates an expectation that this was to happen while some of the people receiving this letter were still alive. Remember when this letter was written and who it was written to.
The passsage does not read, "There will come a day in the distant future when people will be caught up ...". One person writing a letter to a group of people in their own time and saying "we".
How anyone could reasonably extrapolate this out to a time period 2000 years later is beyond me. For all the spiritual elitism and self-righteousness that futurists like to throw around, futurism is far more unbiblical than preterism.
I am not firmly a preterist ... but there is no denying the biblical validity of the point of view.
There are far more unbiblical concepts born out of futurism vs. preterism:
A rebuilding and re-destruction of the temple in Jerusalem
A one world government and unified currency
The belief that all true Christians will be swept off the Earth together in a "rapture" and will not have to face death.
This passage... by useage of the word "we" ... very clearly demonstrates an expectation that this was to happen while some of the people receiving this letter were still alive. Remember when this letter was written and who it was written to.
The passsage does not read, "There will come a day in the distant future when people will be caught up ...". One person writing a letter to a group of people in their own time and saying "we".
How anyone could reasonably extrapolate this out to a time period 2000 years later is beyond me. For all the spiritual elitism and self-righteousness that futurists like to throw around, futurism is far more unbiblical than preterism.
I am not firmly a preterist ... but there is no denying the biblical validity of the point of view.
There are far more unbiblical concepts born out of futurism vs. preterism:
A rebuilding and re-destruction of the temple in Jerusalem
A one world government and unified currency
The belief that all true Christians will be swept off the Earth together in a "rapture" and will not have to face death.
...etc.
You must have misunderstood me. I don't like labels but I guess I would be lumped with the partial preterists.
I said I believe this is talking about the first resurrection, which would have already happend since the context is those at that time.
I see no Biblical proof thus far for hyper preterism.
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so do you deny the resurrection of physical bodies?
